Zheng Yi Sao Pirate Sword

kronckew · 9th March 2025, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

...

Quite possibly such weapons would have been the 'double' swords or knives termed these days as hudeidao (butterfly knives) which were halved to fit into same scabbard. ...

These also came in 'single' sword versions with un-halved grips.

Mine: I think of them as 'Pirate' swords.

RobT · 11th March 2025, 01:26 AM

Hi All,

They also came as single knives. At 14.625 in (37.1475 cm) long, 2.0625 in (5.23875 cm) wide at the hilt, and almost .25 in (6.35mm) thick (spine at the hilt), my example certainly meets the Crocodile Dundee criteria for a “kniof”

Sincerely,
RobT

PS: The guard is very heavy brass and the hilt is wood.

Ian · 11th March 2025, 01:34 AM

Rob, Wayne and Jim,

These southern Chinese knives and sword length blades are interesting but do not have the profile of the sword shown in the original post, which resembles a very narrow rapier.

Ian.

Jim McDougall · 11th March 2025, 03:58 PM

As noted in original response, it does look like a rapier, or more likely small sword/epee blade. Given the very purpose of pirates, to plunder vessels typically European engaged in East Indies trade, the captains often wore small swords of the fashion of the period. As these were known as a mark of authority, which would have been perceived as such, and understandable that a pirate captain, such as Zheng Yi Sao might have posed with such a sword in the manner depicted, if such illustration in period might have been possible.
The fencing glove would have been far fetched as in the period suggested the manner of fencing using this sort of equipment was not yet formalized in any notable degree.

The premise of the discussion has thus become IMO the validity of the illustration as far as accuracy in presuming the type of weapon used by this important pirate figure. While the thin blade illustrated seems as noted a court sword type, the hilt with folding guard (seemingly) is of key notice.

At this point, the course of discussion is primarily what is known as 'historical detection' which is evaluating recorded accounts, iconographic art etc. forensically, and what sources actually were depicted. It has been for me one of the most fascinating areas in studying weapons from these perspectives, and it is great to see others sharing in these views and ideas,.

I regret that Pirate Lady seems to have left as it would have been interesting to know more on what perspectives are involved in her project. Still an intriguing topic.

11th March 2025, 01:26 AM	#2
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 533	Single Knife Version Hi All, They also came as single knives. At 14.625 in (37.1475 cm) long, 2.0625 in (5.23875 cm) wide at the hilt, and almost .25 in (6.35mm) thick (spine at the hilt), my example certainly meets the Crocodile Dundee criteria for a “kniof” Sincerely, RobT PS: The guard is very heavy brass and the hilt is wood. Attached Images

11th March 2025, 01:34 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,361	Rob, Wayne and Jim, These southern Chinese knives and sword length blades are interesting but do not have the profile of the sword shown in the original post, which resembles a very narrow rapier. Ian.

11th March 2025, 03:58 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	As noted in original response, it does look like a rapier, or more likely small sword/epee blade. Given the very purpose of pirates, to plunder vessels typically European engaged in East Indies trade, the captains often wore small swords of the fashion of the period. As these were known as a mark of authority, which would have been perceived as such, and understandable that a pirate captain, such as Zheng Yi Sao might have posed with such a sword in the manner depicted, if such illustration in period might have been possible. The fencing glove would have been far fetched as in the period suggested the manner of fencing using this sort of equipment was not yet formalized in any notable degree. The premise of the discussion has thus become IMO the validity of the illustration as far as accuracy in presuming the type of weapon used by this important pirate figure. While the thin blade illustrated seems as noted a court sword type, the hilt with folding guard (seemingly) is of key notice. At this point, the course of discussion is primarily what is known as 'historical detection' which is evaluating recorded accounts, iconographic art etc. forensically, and what sources actually were depicted. It has been for me one of the most fascinating areas in studying weapons from these perspectives, and it is great to see others sharing in these views and ideas,. I regret that Pirate Lady seems to have left as it would have been interesting to know more on what perspectives are involved in her project. Still an intriguing topic.