Strange Shield for Discussion

kino · 2nd February 2024, 02:07 AM

I have seen a few Jingasa’s and from what I remember the section that hangs over the ears were either cotton or silk, not leather or leather covered.

Richard G · 2nd February 2024, 02:24 PM

With a little bit of imagination the main element of the decoration could represent a coptic cross.
Best wishes
Richard

drac2k · 2nd February 2024, 04:16 PM

Looking at the top of the shield, there appears to be a hole; if so there was probably a metal boss there at one time. This, as well as the handhold set up inside of the item, makes me think that it was always a shield.
The colors and the artwork made me also think that this item was Ethiopian or that surrounding area.
Once again the material of the "item," would be most helpful in providing other clues.

RobT · 3rd February 2024, 12:42 AM

Hi All,

Three questions remain:
Are there any examples of shields with elaborate designs on the inside?
Why was this complex design so crudely destroyed to make room for the grip and padding?
What is the diameter of the piece?

drac2k,
The piece that went inside the hole could indeed have been a shield boss or it could just as well have been a helmet finial of some sort. I agree with you that knowing whether the item is lacquered or not would be very helpful.

Richard G,
I have seen a good number of Ethiopian crosses in silver. I can't recall any that looked like what is on the item.

kino,
The above mentioned finial could quite possibly be used to affix any padding, ear flaps, and straps. If the item was originally a jingasa, then the leather isn't original to the piece.

Gavin Nugent,
I have a real problem with the way the leather straps work with the design on the face of the shield. They don't. They are just punched through the design haphazardly. You would think that all design and practical elements would be made to work harmoniously together as they do on your examples.

Sincerely,
RobT

Gavin Nugent · 3rd February 2024, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobT

Hi All,

I have a real problem with the way the leather straps work with the design on the face of the shield. They don't. They are just punched through the design haphazardly. You would think that all design and practical elements would be made to work harmoniously together as they do on your examples.

Sincerely,
RobT

To be fair, none of the region do really work in harmony in that they are punched through and do cover aspects of tooling and paint inside and out on the types, but, it can be seen externally they have been painted to match the external on these examples.

Another aspect I noted in the last day, the "X" motifs seen on this one, http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22648
They are very common on Somali shields, painted within the inner motifs of the Somali Gaashaan.

Tim Simmons · 3rd February 2024, 01:33 PM

Very interesting but it still does not resemble anything like the construction of the Somali {East African } shields we all more familiar with. Could the painting be Burmese ? I seen painted sticks. Still see a leather helmet the pad so the cone is not forced on your head.

RobT · 4th February 2024, 04:51 AM

Hi All,
The original post was a request for information on the origin of the item. I have asked twice for the diameter of the piece. This is a simple request that may be critical to the item's identification but thus far, the original poster has failed to respond. Also note that, although information on the materials used to make the item has been asked for, the original poster has not given any information on same. One would think that, if the original poster is really serious about getting an ID for the item, he would have provided the requested information.

Gavin Nugent,
I don't see a real design correlation between the example provided in your latest link and the item currently under discussion. The design example provided by Ibrahiim Balooshi in that link is strongly geometric with the design and background closely tied together. In short, it looks Islamic. To my eye, the subject of this thread has a far different treatment of design and negative (background) space and that aesthetic looks far more Asian. I also should note that the respondents to that thread were quite divided and a link to an even prior thread didn't lead to any solid consensus either.

My proposal is that the shield started life as a Japanese jingasa worn by a samurai mercenary in South East Asia and was converted by the native population to a buckler. Mercenary samurai were employed all over SEA so jingasa were probably relatively common and a reasonable number became available to native craftsmen for conversion. This would explain why the conversion elements (hand straps and padding) don't work with the original design.

Sincerely,
RobT

3rd February 2024, 12:42 AM	#4
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 533	Unaddressed Questions Needing Answers Hi All, Three questions remain: Are there any examples of shields with elaborate designs on the inside? Why was this complex design so crudely destroyed to make room for the grip and padding? What is the diameter of the piece? drac2k, The piece that went inside the hole could indeed have been a shield boss or it could just as well have been a helmet finial of some sort. I agree with you that knowing whether the item is lacquered or not would be very helpful. Richard G, I have seen a good number of Ethiopian crosses in silver. I can't recall any that looked like what is on the item. kino, The above mentioned finial could quite possibly be used to affix any padding, ear flaps, and straps. If the item was originally a jingasa, then the leather isn't original to the piece. Gavin Nugent, I have a real problem with the way the leather straps work with the design on the face of the shield. They don't. They are just punched through the design haphazardly. You would think that all design and practical elements would be made to work harmoniously together as they do on your examples. Sincerely, RobT

4th February 2024, 04:51 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 533	Diameter Needed Hi All, The original post was a request for information on the origin of the item. I have asked twice for the diameter of the piece. This is a simple request that may be critical to the item's identification but thus far, the original poster has failed to respond. Also note that, although information on the materials used to make the item has been asked for, the original poster has not given any information on same. One would think that, if the original poster is really serious about getting an ID for the item, he would have provided the requested information. Gavin Nugent, I don't see a real design correlation between the example provided in your latest link and the item currently under discussion. The design example provided by Ibrahiim Balooshi in that link is strongly geometric with the design and background closely tied together. In short, it looks Islamic. To my eye, the subject of this thread has a far different treatment of design and negative (background) space and that aesthetic looks far more Asian. I also should note that the respondents to that thread were quite divided and a link to an even prior thread didn't lead to any solid consensus either. My proposal is that the shield started life as a Japanese jingasa worn by a samurai mercenary in South East Asia and was converted by the native population to a buckler. Mercenary samurai were employed all over SEA so jingasa were probably relatively common and a reasonable number became available to native craftsmen for conversion. This would explain why the conversion elements (hand straps and padding) don't work with the original design. Sincerely, RobT

2nd February 2024, 02:07 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	I have seen a few Jingasa’s and from what I remember the section that hangs over the ears were either cotton or silk, not leather or leather covered.

2nd February 2024, 02:24 PM	#2
Richard G Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 409	With a little bit of imagination the main element of the decoration could represent a coptic cross. Best wishes Richard

2nd February 2024, 04:16 PM	#3
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,255	Looking at the top of the shield, there appears to be a hole; if so there was probably a metal boss there at one time. This, as well as the handhold set up inside of the item, makes me think that it was always a shield. The colors and the artwork made me also think that this item was Ethiopian or that surrounding area. Once again the material of the "item," would be most helpful in providing other clues.

3rd February 2024, 01:33 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Very interesting but it still does not resemble anything like the construction of the Somali {East African } shields we all more familiar with. Could the painting be Burmese ? I seen painted sticks. Still see a leather helmet the pad so the cone is not forced on your head.