Unusual Quaddara

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Ian

Mahratt,

The demonstration of a second example of this type of sword (as shown by "Interested Party") would seem to negate both arguments from the Russian forum that you quoted. Both the fullers and what appears to be a struck mark on this second example indicates that the subject of this thread is not a unique example made to order in Syria. We seem to be seeing a very unusual style based on an Ottoman blade.


As far as acid etching is concerned, the blade and scabbard are too rusted to make such an assessment IMHO.

Ian, I did not write (not to upset our dear Ariel) that serious collectors of Oriental arms have long known that all lots from this seller were made in recent times. But, as I wrote earlier, everyone has the right to believe the version the seller provided.
Unfortunately, Ariel represents that Russia is still in the 1990s.

P.S. My opinion is that the days when you could buy a unique item for "2 cents" on marketplaces like e-bay are long gone. Now everyone has the internet and any seller knows for sure if his item is unique or not. And also knows that a unique item cannot be cheap.

[ariel]

Slander, especially attributed to anonymous sources, is very high on my list of despicable behaviors.

Just an aside.

[ariel]

Interested Party,

Seems to me that the spine of the terminal third of the blade is tilting down just a little, and the edge follows the same direction. Of course, physical examination of the dagger itself would be much more informative.
As to the consequences of the “ heavy use”, that can be confirmed ( or rejected) through measurements of the width of the blade at different points.

But in general, there is an uncanny resemblance of that and mine “ qaddaras” ( for want of a better word). It suggests that it was a general, albeit extremely rare, subtype rather than sporadic improvisation by an isolated master.

And of course the inscriptions might be of crucial importance.
While the existing contour and decorations do suggest Persian provenance, as a rule Persian blades had no fullers, while Turkish Surmenes had a very elaborate system of those.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by ariel

Interested Party,

Seems to me that the spine of the terminal third of the blade is tilting down just a little, and the edge follows the same direction. Of course, physical examination of the dagger itself would be much more informative.
As to the consequences of the “ heavy use”, that can be confirmed ( or rejected) through measurements of the width of the blade at different points.

But in general, there is an uncanny resemblance of that and mine “ qaddaras” ( for want of a better word). It suggests that it was a general, albeit extremely rare, subtype rather than sporadic improvisation by an isolated master.

And of course the inscriptions might be of crucial importance.
While the existing contour and decorations do suggest Persian provenance, as a rule Persian blades had no fullers, while Turkish Surmenes had a very elaborate system of those.

Ariel, I hope that after you translate the inscriptions from this item, there will be a fascinating article in a scientific journal in which you will state your theory based on this subject. I'm already looking forward to it.

That is, of course, if you are sure of authenticity of this quadarra. You can't have such an unusual item just lying around in a private collection. It should serve science. All the more, as I remember you have experience (albeit small) in publishing articles related to Arms. I think "Weapons History Journal" will gladly give you an opportunity to make a publication.

[kwiatek]

I cannot make a lot out of it, what is legible appears to be the usual stuff such as Qur'an 48:1. There is also a maker's inscription

عمل ابر[ا]هيم

'Work of Ibrahim'

[ariel]

Thanks Kwiatek!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by mahratt

... P.S. My opinion is that the days when you could buy a unique item for "2 cents" on marketplaces like e-bay are long gone. Now everyone has the internet and any seller knows for sure if his item is unique or not. And also knows that a unique item cannot be cheap.

Mahratt,

I'm not so sure. Occasional items slip through the cracks. Every now and then (much less commonly than in the 1990s), the odd item is misidentified and ends up to be a real sleeper. This is still the case with some Filipino items, for example--not so much the Moro pieces but less common swords and knives from other Filipino cultures about which we have much less information. Filipino collectors (i.e., those from within the culture) are providing more and more information about their ethnographic arms and armor, helping us to better understand important and valuable pieces of their rich culture.

[mahratt]

Originally Posted by Ian

Mahratt,

I'm not so sure. Occasional items slip through the cracks. Every now and then (much less commonly than in the 1990s), the odd item is misidentified and ends up to be a real sleeper. This is still the case with some Filipino items, for example--not so much the Moro pieces but less common swords and knives from other Filipino cultures about which we have much less information. Filipino collectors (i.e., those from within the culture) are providing more and more information about their ethnographic arms and armor, helping us to better understand important and valuable pieces of their rich culture.

Ian,
I definitely agree with you about tribal ethnographic weapons. But, Oriental arms (Indo-Persian, Ottoman, etc.) in recent years, has been actively monitored by all collectors.