Small sword identification

[Hotspur]

Heart

Chalice

Catholic


Hearts/Cups Royalty/Church
Spades/Swords Military
Diamonds/Pentacles/Coins Guilds/Merchants
Clubs/Wands Peasants/Labor

I'm not sure how one goes from something on a grip to counterguards and what we may see. We do see hearts from time to time. We'd like to list them as all from one source but it's just not really that simple. Of course, my favorite inset for a counterguard is something entirely different.


Cheers
GC

[M ELEY]

Just chiming in with everyone else that this is a spadrron-type, European/probably UK. I post this one only to show the folding back guard (yours appears to be missing) on the m1786 pattern. I think the issue with these types is similar to NCO swords. There appears to be room for variation depending on branch, rank, specialty, etc.



http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.12970.html

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Just chiming in with everyone else that this is a spadrron-type, European/probably UK. I post this one only to show the folding back guard (yours appears to be missing) on the m1786 pattern. I think the issue with these types is similar to NCO swords. There appears to be room for variation depending on branch, rank, specialty, etc.

Thank you Eley
I think you nailed it. Yes, a piece is missing and then confirms the date and identification.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Just chiming in with everyone else that this is a spadrron-type, European/probably UK. I post this one only to show the folding back guard (yours appears to be missing) on the m1786 pattern. I think the issue with these types is similar to NCO swords. There appears to be room for variation depending on branch, rank, specialty, etc.



http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.12970.html

Capn, thank you for noticing this!!!! I totally missed the fixtures for that which is obviously missing. bonk!

[fernando]

How could i be so blind that didn't figure out that those 'studs' are the hinges for a folding guard. To my defence, i was betrayed by the angle of the picture . Actually, i have even discussed these features a few years ago over my (ex) pattern 1806 Portuguese Cavalry officers sword.
OTOH, for what i knew of Spadroons (Espadões) from a local fellow collector, i would never realize Kubur's sword is also one of the kind.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

How could i be so blind that didn't figure out that those 'studs' are the hinges for a folding guard. To my defence, i was betrayed by the angle of the picture . Actually, i have even discussed these features a few years ago over my (ex) pattern 1806 Portuguese Cavalry officers sword.
OTOH, for what i knew of Spadroons (Espadões) from a local fellow collector, i would never realize Kubur's sword is also one of the kind.


.

Well, that makes two of us Fernando! I didnt notice them at all, and I only knew of the 'spadroon's' from the 1786 pattern (which I had forgotten as well, good thing the Capn is aboard!) which I know only as c. 1790s in studying the five ball hilt aboout a zillion years ago.

[Kubur]

Please, forgive my ignorance
But what is the advantage to have a folding guard???

[fernando]

The folded guard becoming a more 'flat' surface, it leans more smoothly against your hip.
I recall one solution with the 1796 British heavy cavalry sword. As the guard was born unfoldable and harassed troops, the Ordnance decided to cut off (trim) part of it; this before the battle of Waterloo; after which the 'new version' was named.
Also their blade points were reviewed, as may be seen, but is another story.


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[Kubur]

Originally Posted by Hotspur

Heart
Chalice
Catholic
I'm not sure how one goes from something on a grip to counterguards and what we may see. We do see hearts from time to time. We'd like to list them as all from one source but it's just not really that simple. Of course, my favorite inset for a counterguard is something entirely different.
GC

Thank you GC
Heart = Catholic was something that I had in mind since the beginning.
So maybe Scottish or Irish...
I was thinking that it was a regular sword and then easy to identify precisely because of the hearth.
Your examples with hearths on counterguards are very interesting and again the same period roughtly.