European Hunting sword- asian style...

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Philip

The blade doesn't look Chinese at all to me. The almost universal characteristic of the fullering on Chinese curved single-edged blades (sabers and the like) is that they begin a short distance ahead of the guard. The forte thus being flat, giving the blade a wedge shaped section in that area. This flat area may be just plain, or it may be fitted for a tunkou or a metal sleeve usually with a scalloped profile. A fuller that runs all the way back to the shoulders of the blade at the junction of the tang is not in keeping with the tradition.

Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about. Here are 3 Chinese saber blades of "willow leaf" type, narrow and with curvature through most of length. The important thing is where the fullering ends. You'll note that the grooves don't run back to the guard. Even simple uni-channel designs all end a similar distance ahead of the guard.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Philip

Here's a pic to show what I'm talking about. Here are 3 Chinese saber blades of "willow leaf" type, narrow and with curvature through most of length. The important thing is where the fullering ends. You'll note that the grooves don't run back to the guard. Even simple uni-channel designs all end a similar distance ahead of the guard.

Perfectly illustrated and explained Philip! I see exactly what you mean.

I wish I could think of where Ive seen something like this, seems like it was one of those Polish collection books which included not just Polish but other forms. I think possibly the Bashford Dean (1928) might have something as well but need to check ("European Court & Hunting Swords").

[francantolin]

Hello And thank you all,

really interesting comments about european/ asian swords.
I found this sword with the same guard.
Sold in an auction by Thierry de Maigret
( well known auction house in France) who has the same shape,
hunting knife, 18th century with bone hilt...

[francantolin]

Or this one who is exactly the same !
sold as a hunting dagger .

With the interesting engravings on the blade, German ?
or Pandour- Austrian/Ungarian army units as Jim said...

[Jim McDougall]

Actually this style of engraved motif is a theme termed 'Caissignard' and seems to have been prevalent in Nantes, France in the mid to latter 18th c. The 'Pandour' units of Austria were disbanded c. 1747 but similar auxiliary units were later formed in Germany as well as France. The style often recognized these units with a sword waving hussar and sometimes with the motto 'viva pandur'. These markings were often on plug bayonets as well as seen in R.D.C. Evans "The Plug Bayonet".

Other devices which often accompanied the turbaned figure were combinations of magic or occult characters in various arrangement.
Intriguing swords which were considered most fashionable during times when these unusual followings had become quite popular even into the regal settings.

[francantolin]

Hello Jim,

Really thank's a lot for these informations about Caissignard in Nantes and ritual/magic signification.
Now I'm quite sure it's a french hunting sword/dagger.

Kind regards

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by francantolin

Hello Jim,

Really thank's a lot for these informations about Caissignard in Nantes and ritual/magic signification.
Now I'm quite sure it's a french hunting sword/dagger.

Kind regards

My pleasure Francantolin! Im glad I could add some helpful info, and thanks for sharing this sword here!

[Radboud]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Actually this style of engraved motif is a theme termed 'Caissignard' and seems to have been prevalent in Nantes, France in the mid to latter 18th c.

This is an interesting observation. When I was researching my Cassaignard sword, most examples with his name feature the same three icons; the 'Sword arm from the cloud', 'Man in the sun' and 'Man in the moon'. I took this to indicate that he used pre-decorated blades imported from Solingen based supplier rather than the style originating from him or Nantes.



I’ve seen these motifs, plus the 'Turks head', the 'Charging Hussar' and more, in various styles on swords from multiple countries. I was under the impression that these were a general fashion statement rather than specific to a region. The physical evidence also suggests that Solingen blade makers were happy to supply blades that were fully decorated with whatever markings the customer wanted, including the clients' name (where the client could be a cutler such as Cassaignard, or a wholesaler like S&K or J J Runkel).

The most compelling evidence for this are the blades imported by J J Runkel into the United Kingdom circa 1790 - 1808. I have four swords by different cutlers that use a Runkel-supplied blade, and each has the same generic decoration. All carry the GR cypher and the Royal Coat of Arms which must have been applied at the time the rest of the decorations were, meaning it happened prior to import.



Coming back to the ‘Turks head,’ these and other cabalistic iconography (including a charging Hussar) also feature on the British 1788 Light cavalry trooper sabres that were made in Solingen and imported by J J Runkel at the end of the 18th Century:



This French (possibly Dutch) Côtes de Melon style light cavalry officers' sabre also has a blade with a 'Turks head', yet was made in Solingen as evidenced by the 'Rose' on the spine.