Classifying shashka--a serious discussion of typology

mariusgmioc · 24th August 2016, 10:27 AM

Very interesting comments! Thank you Ariel and Kamachate!

kamachate · 24th August 2016, 11:27 AM

Good point, Ariel:

"It was an unusual occurrence: the vanquished imposed their culture upon the conquerors."

Maybe sometime we should talk about the Victorian perception of the "mountain warriors", or, "Noble Savages"... Even some English "sirs" were having photos or paintings in Circassian warrior costume, even with chainmail armours, which is really hard to carry if you are not really going to a war, and already was an "ancient" dressing during 1850's, preferred only by high level aristocracy

ariel · 24th August 2016, 01:44 PM

Suggest reading "Sabers of Paradise" by Leslie Blanch. It is a history of Russo-Caucasian wars. Marvelous book!

There is quite a lot there about Victorian British reactions to that war. Their sympathy toward Shamil was boundless, just as their hatred of the "Russian Bear". There were some unofficial channels between the Brits and Shamil but overall, the Brits did very little, if anything, to assist him.
He even wrote to Queen Victoria, offering his assistance in the Crimean war, but got no answer.

ariel · 24th August 2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamachate

.... chainmail armours...was an "ancient" dressing during 1850's, preferred only by high level aristocracy

And Khevsurs. But those continued to live in the 15th century:-))

kamachate · 24th August 2016, 03:03 PM

Interestingly, Circassian noble classes (wearing chainmail shirts, helmets and carrying bow-quiver), including the royal guards of the Czar's convoy, are rarely depicted with "shashkas". Especially the highest ranks seem to prefer "ordinka" type sabres, instead of a regular and modest shashka. Shashkas seem to be preferred mostly by the free highlanders, and only after the Russian war, we see high ranks carrying very elaborately adorned shashkas. Maybe this can be the difference between a big blade (shashka) and a regular sabre (chate) to a Circassian.

estcrh · 24th August 2016, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamachate

Interestingly, Circassian noble classes (wearing chainmail shirts, helmets and carrying bow-quiver), including the royal guards of the Czar's convoy, are rarely depicted with "shashkas". Especially the highest ranks seem to prefer "ordinka" type sabres, instead of a regular and modest shashka. Shashkas seem to be preferred mostly by the free highlanders, and only after the Russian war, we see high ranks carrying very elaborately adorned shashkas. Maybe this can be the difference between a big blade (shashka) and a regular sabre (chate) to a Circassian.

Plenty of shashka here, supposedly showing Circassians with an Ottoman official. It would be interesting to go through some of the old photos and see exactly what type of sword was preferred.

Quote:

Group portrait of eight Circassian men in uniform, with another man, possibly an Ottoman official by Abdullah Frères, 1880.

ariel · 24th August 2016, 07:18 PM

These are muhajirs, the exiled Circassians on Sultan's service. Couple of them even wear Ottoman medals.

ariel · 24th August 2016, 07:29 PM

Caucasians serving in the Tsar's convoy wore garb likely approved by the Tsar himself and not contemporaneous with the real local one.
Some of the "misyurkas" ( flat, plate-like helmets with mail on the edges) were even made for them in Russia proper.
They had to look exotic, slightly wild and and archaic.

24th August 2016, 10:27 AM	#1
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	Very interesting comments! Thank you Ariel and Kamachate!

24th August 2016, 11:27 AM	#2
kamachate Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 26	Good point, Ariel: "It was an unusual occurrence: the vanquished imposed their culture upon the conquerors." Maybe sometime we should talk about the Victorian perception of the "mountain warriors", or, "Noble Savages"... Even some English "sirs" were having photos or paintings in Circassian warrior costume, even with chainmail armours, which is really hard to carry if you are not really going to a war, and already was an "ancient" dressing during 1850's, preferred only by high level aristocracy

24th August 2016, 01:44 PM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Suggest reading "Sabers of Paradise" by Leslie Blanch. It is a history of Russo-Caucasian wars. Marvelous book! There is quite a lot there about Victorian British reactions to that war. Their sympathy toward Shamil was boundless, just as their hatred of the "Russian Bear". There were some unofficial channels between the Brits and Shamil but overall, the Brits did very little, if anything, to assist him. He even wrote to Queen Victoria, offering his assistance in the Crimean war, but got no answer.

24th August 2016, 03:03 PM	#5
kamachate Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 26	Interestingly, Circassian noble classes (wearing chainmail shirts, helmets and carrying bow-quiver), including the royal guards of the Czar's convoy, are rarely depicted with "shashkas". Especially the highest ranks seem to prefer "ordinka" type sabres, instead of a regular and modest shashka. Shashkas seem to be preferred mostly by the free highlanders, and only after the Russian war, we see high ranks carrying very elaborately adorned shashkas. Maybe this can be the difference between a big blade (shashka) and a regular sabre (chate) to a Circassian.

24th August 2016, 07:18 PM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	These are muhajirs, the exiled Circassians on Sultan's service. Couple of them even wear Ottoman medals.

24th August 2016, 07:29 PM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Caucasians serving in the Tsar's convoy wore garb likely approved by the Tsar himself and not contemporaneous with the real local one. Some of the "misyurkas" ( flat, plate-like helmets with mail on the edges) were even made for them in Russia proper. They had to look exotic, slightly wild and and archaic.