Moro keris/kalis ID

RobT · 22nd November 2024, 11:50 PM

adamb,

Based on your photos, I strongly suspect that this is a one piece baca baca. If it were a two piece version, the brass strap looping around the stirrup would be visible on your front view photo. Your piece appears to be a variant that I haven’t seen before in that the strap that goes under the hilt wrap seems to have been forge welded to the blade stirrup. Since the tang is covered by the wood of the hilt, a weak magnet should confirm whether or not the strap is ferrous metal and hence one piece. I also agree with David that all the other features of the blade point toward it being made after Admiral Nelson. Offhand I can think of three possible scenarios: One, the label is a complete fabrication. Two, the tabel is authentic and was previously attached to another piece. Three (highly unlikely given the fit), the sheath originally belonged to another kris. Frankly for my part, given that this is a fine looking kris in good condition (with a sheath in good condition to boot), the authenticity of the label is of little importance.

Sincerely,
RobT

xasterix · 23rd November 2024, 03:30 AM

I believe that the gangya may be a super-tightly fitted two-piece; I've encountered such pieces before- on visual, looks one-piece, but when I reset / apply heat gun, I would get a surprise when the tree adhesive bleeds out of a previously invisible gangya line.

The one-piece kris and kalis I've encountered tend to be longer, markedly less meticulous on the carving patterns for the katik and elephant figural, and have larger hilts due to having larger tangs.

I agree with RobT's possible mixed-up scabbard scenario. I believe this piece is legit pre-1900, it's just a toss-up regarding when, since I don't have any visibility on a provenanced similar piece that has a late 1700s attribution; I would be more confident to think of it as early-mid 1800s.

Admiral Lord Nelson died on 1805. Another possibility: the kris may have been made turn-of-century 1800s or up to before his death on 1805 (or a little beyond even), and intended as a gift to him. Communication was still very slow in that era; whoever bought it in PH, or secured it as a souvenir, may not have known of his death yet, hence the label.

Maurice · 23rd November 2024, 08:26 PM

The reason why I asked about the yellow/gold colour dye, is that I have seen several old Borneo swords (parang ilangs, curved - and jimpul like swords) with the same golden colour painted on their scabbards.
I've never seen that on scabbards of other regions of the Indonesian archipellago. So maybe, just maybe, it could be that yours visited that area a long time ago too.....

22nd November 2024, 11:50 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 548	Try a Weak Magnet adamb, Based on your photos, I strongly suspect that this is a one piece baca baca. If it were a two piece version, the brass strap looping around the stirrup would be visible on your front view photo. Your piece appears to be a variant that I haven’t seen before in that the strap that goes under the hilt wrap seems to have been forge welded to the blade stirrup. Since the tang is covered by the wood of the hilt, a weak magnet should confirm whether or not the strap is ferrous metal and hence one piece. I also agree with David that all the other features of the blade point toward it being made after Admiral Nelson. Offhand I can think of three possible scenarios: One, the label is a complete fabrication. Two, the tabel is authentic and was previously attached to another piece. Three (highly unlikely given the fit), the sheath originally belonged to another kris. Frankly for my part, given that this is a fine looking kris in good condition (with a sheath in good condition to boot), the authenticity of the label is of little importance. Sincerely, RobT

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23rd November 2024, 03:30 AM	#2
xasterix Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 674	I believe that the gangya may be a super-tightly fitted two-piece; I've encountered such pieces before- on visual, looks one-piece, but when I reset / apply heat gun, I would get a surprise when the tree adhesive bleeds out of a previously invisible gangya line. The one-piece kris and kalis I've encountered tend to be longer, markedly less meticulous on the carving patterns for the katik and elephant figural, and have larger hilts due to having larger tangs. I agree with RobT's possible mixed-up scabbard scenario. I believe this piece is legit pre-1900, it's just a toss-up regarding when, since I don't have any visibility on a provenanced similar piece that has a late 1700s attribution; I would be more confident to think of it as early-mid 1800s. Admiral Lord Nelson died on 1805. Another possibility: the kris may have been made turn-of-century 1800s or up to before his death on 1805 (or a little beyond even), and intended as a gift to him. Communication was still very slow in that era; whoever bought it in PH, or secured it as a souvenir, may not have known of his death yet, hence the label.

23rd November 2024, 08:26 PM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	The reason why I asked about the yellow/gold colour dye, is that I have seen several old Borneo swords (parang ilangs, curved - and jimpul like swords) with the same golden colour painted on their scabbards. I've never seen that on scabbards of other regions of the Indonesian archipellago. So maybe, just maybe, it could be that yours visited that area a long time ago too.....