Moro keris/kalis ID

adamb · Today, 02:39 AM

Hi All,

I'm hoping someone can provide a little information on this keris/kalis; likely source of origin in the region, and approximate age? Both are of interest but especially the latter, as it might help make sense of the inscription on the label.

Any and all insight much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Battara · Today, 04:54 AM

I'd venture Maguindanao (Island of Mindanao) and mid 19c.

I'll let others correct me.

Rick · Today, 06:27 AM

I'd like to see a close up, in focus horizontal image of the label.
I think that's important in helping trace the history.

How about length overall, blade, etc.

That is a really nice example of an old Moro kris, and it doesn't look like it has had any recent 'restoration'.

Maurice · Today, 09:52 AM

Beautiful sundang.

I would say Sulu, and pre 1880 (but I'm no expert in Filipino blades).
Maybe it even wandered with the seafarers for their piracy practices, and it ended up at the Sarawak/Borneo coastal areas.

It looks like the scabbard had been 'painted' with a kind of yellow/goldish like dye?

xasterix · Today, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I'd venture Maguindanao (Island of Mindanao) and mid 19c.

I'll let others correct me.

Agreed- Maguin blade (Iranun another possibility), Mindanao dress (possibly Maguin or Iranun also, but not discounting Maranao-area side). I would further conjecture that the blade is nobility-type, early to mid 1800s.

Ian · Today, 02:38 PM

I'm taking a slightly different tack with this one, but will probably end up in much the same place as most comments already.

The prominent central fuller stands out on the blade. I believe this is very unusual on Moro-made kris for two reasons. First, the fuller starts some distance below the gangya (there is no "arrowhead" feature) and, second, it extends to within a centimeter of the tip. This type of fuller is seen more commonly, I think, on Malayan kris, or at least Malayan-influenced blades. I have an old and heavily patinated kris with a similar fuller and a wider than expected blade for its relatively short length and likely age.

The scabbard is of an older style, with a nicely carved cross piece, a prominent up-turn to the toe and a smaller downwards protrusion as well. There have been a few of these showing up here lately. Again, I believe this style of scabbard has a strong Malayan influence. Most kris that I have seen with this style of scabbard were in Sulu dress. Cato's book has a Sulu royalty example with a similarly styled scabbard on the dust jacket. So Maurice's suggestion that this could be a Sulu kalis has some basis, I believe.

Looking at the elephant trunk area, I have difficulty separating this one between Maguindanao, Sulu, or Malay. The area enclosed by the seca kacang (trunk) and gandhik looks more oval than round, which favors a Sulu or Malayan blade. There is a slight "fullness" of the gandhik that might suggest a Maranao origin, but it's not a typical Maranao appearance.

The hilt in this case isn't very helpful in separating tribal origin. The plaited hemp wrap is utilitarian and well suited for combat, while the diminutive kakatua pommel is a common style and includes the side panels.

I'm inclined to think this is a Malay-influenced Sulu kalis. Another possibility is Ilanun (Iranum). Ilanun communities are found in northern Borneo and to the south of Brunei. The main population resides in Mindanao, between the areas populated by Maranao and Maguindanao. They are excellent sailors (and pirates). It would be expected that some Ilanun would carry weapons with Malayan characteristics.

Ian · Today, 03:01 PM

Here is one of mine in a similar style scabbard. The smaller tip on the toe is partly missing. It has a similar cross piece to the scabbard. The blade has a central ridge (no fuller) and the elephant trunk area shows Maranao features. The hilt has a similar wrap of woven fibers and a very small ivory kakatua with side panels.

.

milandro · Today, 04:40 PM

I would agree with Sundag Sulu ,

The ganja being " Iras" is a bit confusing.

I would agree, this is a 19th century piece.

Maurice · Today, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milandro

I would agree with Sundag Sulu ,

The ganja being " Iras" is a bit confusing.

I would agree, this is a 19th century piece.

I don't think the ganja is 'iras', but seperate (but very tight / narrow).

David · Today, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

I don't think the ganja is 'iras', but seperate (but very tight / narrow).

I agree, this is not gangya iras, just a really nice, tight fit. I also feel this could be Sulu, but don't really see the central fuller as a Malay influence. At least i have a kris which is clearly Moro to my mind that has a very similar central fuller to this one, so i don't see it as a feature that is only found on Malay sundangs. Sorry, but i have never photographed that kris so i can't show it right know.
It does seem to be that the tip has been somewhat reshaped. I can't tell from the photos whether there is any significant loss of length though.
Over all a beautiful, original and complete kris. Nice find Adam!

Today, 02:39 AM	#1
adamb Member Join Date: Oct 2024 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 13	Moro keris/kalis ID Hi All, I'm hoping someone can provide a little information on this keris/kalis; likely source of origin in the region, and approximate age? Both are of interest but especially the latter, as it might help make sense of the inscription on the label. Any and all insight much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Attached Images

Today, 03:01 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	Here is one of mine in a similar style scabbard. The smaller tip on the toe is partly missing. It has a similar cross piece to the scabbard. The blade has a central ridge (no fuller) and the elephant trunk area shows Maranao features. The hilt has a similar wrap of woven fibers and a very small ivory kakatua with side panels. . Attached Images

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Today, 04:54 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,229	I'd venture Maguindanao (Island of Mindanao) and mid 19c. I'll let others correct me.

Today, 06:27 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,294	I'd like to see a close up, in focus horizontal image of the label. I think that's important in helping trace the history. How about length overall, blade, etc. That is a really nice example of an old Moro kris, and it doesn't look like it has had any recent 'restoration'.

Today, 09:52 AM	#4
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,354	Beautiful sundang. I would say Sulu, and pre 1880 (but I'm no expert in Filipino blades). Maybe it even wandered with the seafarers for their piracy practices, and it ended up at the Sarawak/Borneo coastal areas. It looks like the scabbard had been 'painted' with a kind of yellow/goldish like dye?

Today, 02:38 PM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,209	I'm taking a slightly different tack with this one, but will probably end up in much the same place as most comments already. The prominent central fuller stands out on the blade. I believe this is very unusual on Moro-made kris for two reasons. First, the fuller starts some distance below the gangya (there is no "arrowhead" feature) and, second, it extends to within a centimeter of the tip. This type of fuller is seen more commonly, I think, on Malayan kris, or at least Malayan-influenced blades. I have an old and heavily patinated kris with a similar fuller and a wider than expected blade for its relatively short length and likely age. The scabbard is of an older style, with a nicely carved cross piece, a prominent up-turn to the toe and a smaller downwards protrusion as well. There have been a few of these showing up here lately. Again, I believe this style of scabbard has a strong Malayan influence. Most kris that I have seen with this style of scabbard were in Sulu dress. Cato's book has a Sulu royalty example with a similarly styled scabbard on the dust jacket. So Maurice's suggestion that this could be a Sulu kalis has some basis, I believe. Looking at the elephant trunk area, I have difficulty separating this one between Maguindanao, Sulu, or Malay. The area enclosed by the seca kacang (trunk) and gandhik looks more oval than round, which favors a Sulu or Malayan blade. There is a slight "fullness" of the gandhik that might suggest a Maranao origin, but it's not a typical Maranao appearance. The hilt in this case isn't very helpful in separating tribal origin. The plaited hemp wrap is utilitarian and well suited for combat, while the diminutive kakatua pommel is a common style and includes the side panels. I'm inclined to think this is a Malay-influenced Sulu kalis. Another possibility is Ilanun (Iranum). Ilanun communities are found in northern Borneo and to the south of Brunei. The main population resides in Mindanao, between the areas populated by Maranao and Maguindanao. They are excellent sailors (and pirates). It would be expected that some Ilanun would carry weapons with Malayan characteristics.

Today, 04:40 PM	#8
milandro Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Netherlands Posts: 478	I would agree with Sundag Sulu , The ganja being " Iras" is a bit confusing. I would agree, this is a 19th century piece.