is it possible for blood/flesh to remain on a blade for over a century....

VANDOO · 18th July 2008, 05:39 PM

BLOOD DOES HAVE A FAIRLY SHORT SHELF LIFE AS IT WILL ROT, DRY AND DEGRADE AS ALL THINGS FLESH DO. WITH TODAYS FORSENSIC SCIENCE IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE IF A RUSTY, CRUSTY AREA IS BLOOD AND PERHAPS IF IT IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN BUT I INAGINE THERE WOULD BE A TIME LIMIT BEFORE IT WAS TOO FAR DEGRADED TO TEST. SOME OLD RUST PATTERNS ON BLADES MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY BLOOD IN THE PAST AND AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL BY THE PATTERN OR SOMETHING BUT USUALLY IT IS JUST A STORY OR GUESS AS TO WHAT CAUSED THE STAINS OR RUST.

IN THE LATE 1970'S I BOUGHT A YATAGAN IN HOUSTON TEXAS, IT HAD A LOT OF THICK BLACK STICKY SUBSTANCE IN THE PROTECTED AREAS OF THE BLADE. I WASHED IT OFF AND IT PROVED TO BE BLOOD , I DON'T KNOW THE TYPE AND DID NOT REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY, BUT SOMETIMES I STILL WONDER ABOUT IT.

mross · 18th July 2008, 07:20 PM

One other thing to consider. From what I have read of the Moro, no Moro would allow his sword to remain blood encrusted and thus rust. It would have been attended to at his earliest convenience. Buy the sword not the tale.

M ELEY · 18th July 2008, 09:03 PM

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

Mark · 18th July 2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

I agree that blood would not stain (color or tint) steel in the sense of a stain on cloth. What I meant was the black oxides of the corrosion, which might not necessarily include deep pitting, could remain as a black blotch on the surface of the metal.

chevalier · 18th July 2008, 11:06 PM

this was said of one of skanderbeg's swords in a museum in the early 1900's:

"According to Faik Konica, who viewed the sword at the beginning of the 20th century, there were still stains of blood on the blade."

ward · 18th July 2008, 11:15 PM

thats a romantic nationalst talking not a historian

Atlantia · 18th July 2008, 11:23 PM

I've got this old spear laying around, I dont really want it and its DEFINATELY got REAL blood stains all over it......
Any offers?

Jim McDougall · 21st July 2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

this was said of one of skanderbeg's swords in a museum in the early 1900's:

"According to Faik Konica, who viewed the sword at the beginning of the 20th century, there were still stains of blood on the blade."

Excellent research Chevalier!
What museum was this? Who was Faik Konika? Can you say the reference, page in case we would like to check further?

ariel · 22nd July 2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Excellent research Chevalier!
What museum was this? Who was Faik Konika? Can you say the reference, page in case we would like to check further?

The power of Google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faik_Konica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_of_Skanderbeg

fernando · 19th July 2008, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

How about remaining on paper ?
I have this 18th century small book, with an unknown but forcingly misterious history, in which some of the mistreated pages have some stains which i am fully convinced are blood stains; brownish shade, the more intense ones of a stiff texture, i would say. But this could well be my fantasy. It happens that this an original (or so) copy of a book written by a proeminent Portuguese Jew who was garroted by the Inquisition, and maybe that has unconsciently influenced me. But the stains are there and i don't see what else they would be

.
Sorry to go a bit off topic

Fernando

kronckew · 19th July 2008, 09:47 AM

hi atlantia,

that gold sleeve adds a bit of value to it, but hollowing out the spine and wiring in an old nail surely detracts from the value, as does the repair adding those hanwei/paul chen viking wings to the original roman leaf shape. is there any markings on it? i suspect there may be a break in there somewhere what with all that wiring and such, probably take a lot of repair for it to go back into service. any blood will probably wash off and a good oiling is also in order. i'd take it off your hands & get it fixed up if you mail it to me.

David · 19th July 2008, 02:30 PM

Gentlemen, the swap forum is the proper place to do transactions of this type.

M ELEY · 19th July 2008, 03:15 PM

Paper is indeed one of the mediums that could hold a stain of blood. I've seen some crime scenes with such, spatter patterns on newspaper, etc. Just as Amer Indians used brain matter for tanning, think of your typical cloth/leather/linens/paper/etc as those that typically stain. As far as a corrosive blood stain? Well, I guess its possible, but how does one determine that the corrosion is truly from blood vs moisture/salt air(maritime)/water,etc,etc. It would seem like the bloody blade would have had to have been put in a drawer literally still clotting for awhile for this result.

kronckew · 19th July 2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Gentlemen, the swap forum is the proper place to do transactions of this type.

somehow i do not think the hofsburg hapsburg treasure museum in vienna will be offering the holy spear of destiny, aka the spear of longinus that pierced the side of christ.

the last time that it went walkies was when adolf hilter absconded with it and we know what that lead to. it makes the possessor invincible in battle and confers infinite power, hitler only started losing and went down in defeat after he lost possession of it.

we now return to our regularly scheduled topic.

p.s. - we wuz joking, not even bill gates could afford this item

18th July 2008, 05:39 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	BLOOD DOES HAVE A FAIRLY SHORT SHELF LIFE AS IT WILL ROT, DRY AND DEGRADE AS ALL THINGS FLESH DO. WITH TODAYS FORSENSIC SCIENCE IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE IF A RUSTY, CRUSTY AREA IS BLOOD AND PERHAPS IF IT IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN BUT I INAGINE THERE WOULD BE A TIME LIMIT BEFORE IT WAS TOO FAR DEGRADED TO TEST. SOME OLD RUST PATTERNS ON BLADES MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY BLOOD IN THE PAST AND AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL BY THE PATTERN OR SOMETHING BUT USUALLY IT IS JUST A STORY OR GUESS AS TO WHAT CAUSED THE STAINS OR RUST. IN THE LATE 1970'S I BOUGHT A YATAGAN IN HOUSTON TEXAS, IT HAD A LOT OF THICK BLACK STICKY SUBSTANCE IN THE PROTECTED AREAS OF THE BLADE. I WASHED IT OFF AND IT PROVED TO BE BLOOD , I DON'T KNOW THE TYPE AND DID NOT REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY, BUT SOMETIMES I STILL WONDER ABOUT IT.

18th July 2008, 07:20 PM	#2
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	One other thing to consider. From what I have read of the Moro, no Moro would allow his sword to remain blood encrusted and thus rust. It would have been attended to at his earliest convenience. Buy the sword not the tale.

18th July 2008, 09:03 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

18th July 2008, 11:06 PM	#5
chevalier Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 119	this was said of one of skanderbeg's swords in a museum in the early 1900's: "According to Faik Konica, who viewed the sword at the beginning of the 20th century, there were still stains of blood on the blade."

18th July 2008, 11:15 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	thats a romantic nationalst talking not a historian

18th July 2008, 11:23 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	I've got this old spear laying around, I dont really want it and its DEFINATELY got REAL blood stains all over it...... Any offers?

19th July 2008, 09:47 AM	#11
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	hi atlantia, that gold sleeve adds a bit of value to it, but hollowing out the spine and wiring in an old nail surely detracts from the value, as does the repair adding those hanwei/paul chen viking wings to the original roman leaf shape. is there any markings on it? i suspect there may be a break in there somewhere what with all that wiring and such, probably take a lot of repair for it to go back into service. any blood will probably wash off and a good oiling is also in order. i'd take it off your hands & get it fixed up if you mail it to me.

19th July 2008, 02:30 PM	#12
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Gentlemen, the swap forum is the proper place to do transactions of this type.

19th July 2008, 03:15 PM	#13
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Paper is indeed one of the mediums that could hold a stain of blood. I've seen some crime scenes with such, spatter patterns on newspaper, etc. Just as Amer Indians used brain matter for tanning, think of your typical cloth/leather/linens/paper/etc as those that typically stain. As far as a corrosive blood stain? Well, I guess its possible, but how does one determine that the corrosion is truly from blood vs moisture/salt air(maritime)/water,etc,etc. It would seem like the bloody blade would have had to have been put in a drawer literally still clotting for awhile for this result.