is it possible for blood/flesh to remain on a blade for over a century....

Atlantia · 18th July 2008, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevalier

...and still be recognizable as such?

im thinking about bidding on a moro kris that looks rusty but that supposedly isnt, and its claimed that the rusty stains are actually human blood/flesh, the blade dates from the late 19th/early 20th century and is supposedly still sharp.

im not sure why someone would outright lie like that when theres every chance that the deception will be discovered by the buyer so im left with the possibility that this sword was actually used in battle.

im just wondering weather the seller's claim of the reddish and yellowish stains on the blade being blood/flesh and not rust should be taken seriously..........

LOL, its not a 'nail from the true cross' is it?

The blood would corrode the ferrous metal, the oxidisation would push the 'blood' up from the surface as it became 'crusty', eventually it would flake off or just be indistinguishable from any other corroded stain or oxidisation.
I cant see it being recognisable after any amount of time, and anyway the blood would look black/dark brown anyway after a while.
Unless it was sealed in some oxygen free enviroment? ;-)

Sounds like a 'yarn' to me mate.

Rick · 18th July 2008, 02:25 AM

" Look out Charlie !! "

Do a search .

Mark · 18th July 2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

" Look out Charlie !! "

Do a search .

::snort!::

I got the same claim about one of the first dha I bought - that it had blood on it from the last Siamese-Burmese war (which was in 1767). Looking at the blade, its just a deep, irregular pit.

I would say that the stain (i.e., oxidation) left by blood can remain on the blade for a long time, but I agree that the blood itself would likely flake/rub off during the course of a century. If the balde were sealed (wax, varnish, oil, whatever), such that the blood didn't contact the blade, I suppose with care it could still be there, but IMO blood is too reactive to remain on exposed steel for that long.

PS: Supreme Kampilans Rule!!!!

VANDOO · 18th July 2008, 05:39 PM

BLOOD DOES HAVE A FAIRLY SHORT SHELF LIFE AS IT WILL ROT, DRY AND DEGRADE AS ALL THINGS FLESH DO. WITH TODAYS FORSENSIC SCIENCE IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE IF A RUSTY, CRUSTY AREA IS BLOOD AND PERHAPS IF IT IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN BUT I INAGINE THERE WOULD BE A TIME LIMIT BEFORE IT WAS TOO FAR DEGRADED TO TEST. SOME OLD RUST PATTERNS ON BLADES MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY BLOOD IN THE PAST AND AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL BY THE PATTERN OR SOMETHING BUT USUALLY IT IS JUST A STORY OR GUESS AS TO WHAT CAUSED THE STAINS OR RUST.

IN THE LATE 1970'S I BOUGHT A YATAGAN IN HOUSTON TEXAS, IT HAD A LOT OF THICK BLACK STICKY SUBSTANCE IN THE PROTECTED AREAS OF THE BLADE. I WASHED IT OFF AND IT PROVED TO BE BLOOD , I DON'T KNOW THE TYPE AND DID NOT REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY, BUT SOMETIMES I STILL WONDER ABOUT IT.

mross · 18th July 2008, 07:20 PM

One other thing to consider. From what I have read of the Moro, no Moro would allow his sword to remain blood encrusted and thus rust. It would have been attended to at his earliest convenience. Buy the sword not the tale.

M ELEY · 18th July 2008, 09:03 PM

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

Mark · 18th July 2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

I agree that blood would not stain (color or tint) steel in the sense of a stain on cloth. What I meant was the black oxides of the corrosion, which might not necessarily include deep pitting, could remain as a black blotch on the surface of the metal.

fernando · 19th July 2008, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.

How about remaining on paper ?
I have this 18th century small book, with an unknown but forcingly misterious history, in which some of the mistreated pages have some stains which i am fully convinced are blood stains; brownish shade, the more intense ones of a stiff texture, i would say. But this could well be my fantasy. It happens that this an original (or so) copy of a book written by a proeminent Portuguese Jew who was garroted by the Inquisition, and maybe that has unconsciently influenced me. But the stains are there and i don't see what else they would be

.
Sorry to go a bit off topic

Fernando

18th July 2008, 02:25 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	" Look out Charlie !! " Do a search .

18th July 2008, 05:39 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	BLOOD DOES HAVE A FAIRLY SHORT SHELF LIFE AS IT WILL ROT, DRY AND DEGRADE AS ALL THINGS FLESH DO. WITH TODAYS FORSENSIC SCIENCE IT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO DETERMINE IF A RUSTY, CRUSTY AREA IS BLOOD AND PERHAPS IF IT IS ANIMAL OR HUMAN BUT I INAGINE THERE WOULD BE A TIME LIMIT BEFORE IT WAS TOO FAR DEGRADED TO TEST. SOME OLD RUST PATTERNS ON BLADES MAY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY BLOOD IN THE PAST AND AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO TELL BY THE PATTERN OR SOMETHING BUT USUALLY IT IS JUST A STORY OR GUESS AS TO WHAT CAUSED THE STAINS OR RUST. IN THE LATE 1970'S I BOUGHT A YATAGAN IN HOUSTON TEXAS, IT HAD A LOT OF THICK BLACK STICKY SUBSTANCE IN THE PROTECTED AREAS OF THE BLADE. I WASHED IT OFF AND IT PROVED TO BE BLOOD , I DON'T KNOW THE TYPE AND DID NOT REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY, BUT SOMETIMES I STILL WONDER ABOUT IT.

18th July 2008, 07:20 PM	#5
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	One other thing to consider. From what I have read of the Moro, no Moro would allow his sword to remain blood encrusted and thus rust. It would have been attended to at his earliest convenience. Buy the sword not the tale.

18th July 2008, 09:03 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	I've been in medicine for close to 20 years, as a paramedic and a nurse. I've seen a lot of crime scenes and bladed weapons used in these. Blood could corrode a blade, but the "stain" as far as we know it, would never remain. Blood is made up of cellular tissue that clots, dries, and flakes off. If we were talking about cloth/textiles, it would be a different story.