Talismanic symbols?

[VVV]

Kai,

On your Luma the vegetative vine motif usually represent the creative forces.
The end looks like a rounded version of the old trident symbol.
Probably it's then Shiva's trident from the old beliefs still existing within Folk Islam?
If so one mening of the inlay could be that it's directing strong metaphysical forces towards the direction of the point (=opponent)?
An alternative meaning I have heard is that some people think it's a Naga and the end is a tongue?


Michael

[Spunjer]

a sundang with some serious agimat engravings on one side. just like this one on macario sakay's bulletproof vest...

[VVV]

Ron,

Interesting Sundang.
Have you found out anything about the meaning of the symbols, except that it's of protective character?

Michael

[Spunjer]

Michael,
it's the jesuit order's symbol...

[Jens Nordlunde]

I will not bore you with writing about Indian talismanic markings, as it is not what this thread is about, there is however one thing which have kept me wondering. In none of the threads about krises that I have seen, is mentioned that is was also used in south India (see Robert Elgood – Hindu Arms and Ritual). I wonder why, and I think you would be able to find many interesting markings on krises from India.

The snake is another matter, as you will find it in most, if not in all, religions of the area, plus in a lot of other places, if you read about the peoples/clans/tribes saga about how the Earth was populated – so no wonder that the snake is an important mark.

In The Wonder that was India, A.L.Basham writes about the fish. ‘The fish (Matsya). When the earth was overwhelmed by a universal flood Visnu took the form of a fish, who first warned Manu (the Hindu Adam) of the impending danger, and then carried him, his family, and the great Sages in a ship, fastened to a horn on his head. He also saved the Vedas from the flood. ……’

Many of these old stories from the first religions will be recognised from religion to religion, and the fish was one of the scared marks used by several religions. Think of the trisulas, used over a very big area. Flowers used, were decorative, but I also think they represented something else, maybe a deity. Have a look at this hilt, with two fish, a big flower, on the other side two big flowers, and four trisulas, on on each quillon and on on each langet.

Sorry, I think I got carried away.

[VVV]

Jens,

Beautiful and interesting hilt!

I agree that the same kind of myths are found in a lot of different cultures and religions.
And several of the old talismanic symbols found in f.i. Malaysia, Indonesia and the Philippines have Indian origin.
So please bore us some more.

Michael

[Jens Nordlunde]

Michael, du bad selv om det.

Let’s go to Nepal. I have a kukri, only one, but I like it a lot. As I don’t know much about these weapons I asked John Powell, and he very helpfully gave me the following text.
“The fish on a kukri is called ’matsaya’ in Nepali, and is very common. They represent the first incarnation of Vishnu, and are associated directly with him.
’Suvarna matsya’ are the twin golden fish facing each other, and symbolize being rescued from the ocean of misery of earthly existence.
The peacock is a very common symbol among the Nepalese, for good fortune, and used in many different designs.

The ’Hanuman’ is a half god . Half monkey and half human, he is portrayed in different manners and takes on a variety of positions.” (try to Google/Wikipedia. JN).

The Hanuman you can find on the top mount (the triangle one), the two golden fishes in the middle and the peacocks on the lower mount.


You did not answer the question about the kerises used in south India.


Jens