Tumbok Lada classification

Bill M · 4th November 2006, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm not so sure Bill; Lew's example doesn't have a squared off handle .

Hi Rick,

I was talking about mine.

Bill

Rick · 4th November 2006, 02:04 AM

So Lew's example isn't a Tumbak Lada ?

If not; what is it ?

Is this a Tumbak Lada ?
The hilt is squared but the blade curves the wrong way .
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2259

Alam Shah · 4th November 2006, 02:37 AM

Lew,
Your small piece, is a Siraui. While your larger piece is a Tumbuk Lada.

Bill,
Nice Tumbuk Lada you have there. Have some similarity to mine.

VVV · 4th November 2006, 12:33 PM

I don't think it's possible to always clearly draw the line between what is a Tumbok Lada and what is a Sewar. Also these blades show up in several regions and the reference works sometimes contradicts each other.
In van Z the blades he show as examples of a Tumbok Lada all are clearly that. But some of the blades in van Z that are examples of Sewars are "inbetween".
When I tried to classify before posting my examples I looked at three features; the upper sheath decoration (shorter and rounded vs longer and rectangular), the hilt (compressed and chubby vs longer and slimmer) and the blade (thicker and straight vs slimmer and curved).
I have enclosed two examples of what I believe is clearly a Tumbok Lada and a Sewar on this.
But what happens when a knife is 2/3 correct according to the orthodox classification?
Like my third example that clearly looks like a Tumbok Lada when in the sheath. But then the blade is more like a Sewar?
Either you can call them hybrides or you could classify them on which one of the two styles it's closest?
The problem is that very few blades I have seen do fit the strict classification. So if a knife has all the Tumbok Lada characteristics except the blade I think it's a Tumbok Lada, like f.i. Shahrial's example.
It seems as if the Tumbok Lada vs Sewar is more a collector's classification dilemma than locally used terms based on the contradictions in the original reference works?
Like the Tenegre, Binangon, Sundang, Pinuti, Bolo discussions going on within this forum on the Visayan weapons.

4th November 2006, 02:04 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	So Lew's example isn't a Tumbak Lada ? If not; what is it ? Is this a Tumbak Lada ? The hilt is squared but the blade curves the wrong way . http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2259 Last edited by Rick; 4th November 2006 at 02:31 AM.

4th November 2006, 02:37 AM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Lew, Your small piece, is a Siraui. While your larger piece is a Tumbuk Lada. Bill, Nice Tumbuk Lada you have there. Have some similarity to mine. Attached Images Last edited by Alam Shah; 4th November 2006 at 02:51 AM. Reason: added pics...

4th November 2006, 12:33 PM	#4
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I don't think it's possible to always clearly draw the line between what is a Tumbok Lada and what is a Sewar. Also these blades show up in several regions and the reference works sometimes contradicts each other. In van Z the blades he show as examples of a Tumbok Lada all are clearly that. But some of the blades in van Z that are examples of Sewars are "inbetween". When I tried to classify before posting my examples I looked at three features; the upper sheath decoration (shorter and rounded vs longer and rectangular), the hilt (compressed and chubby vs longer and slimmer) and the blade (thicker and straight vs slimmer and curved). I have enclosed two examples of what I believe is clearly a Tumbok Lada and a Sewar on this. But what happens when a knife is 2/3 correct according to the orthodox classification? Like my third example that clearly looks like a Tumbok Lada when in the sheath. But then the blade is more like a Sewar? Either you can call them hybrides or you could classify them on which one of the two styles it's closest? The problem is that very few blades I have seen do fit the strict classification. So if a knife has all the Tumbok Lada characteristics except the blade I think it's a Tumbok Lada, like f.i. Shahrial's example. It seems as if the Tumbok Lada vs Sewar is more a collector's classification dilemma than locally used terms based on the contradictions in the original reference works? Like the Tenegre, Binangon, Sundang, Pinuti, Bolo discussions going on within this forum on the Visayan weapons. Attached Images Last edited by VVV; 4th November 2006 at 12:51 PM.