Tumbok Lada classification
 

Hi all,

I have just uploaded my Tumbok Lada collection at Kampungnet.
The two Gayo versions are obvious but do you recognise where the other variations come from?

Michael

Detail pictures at http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

I wish someone had more information to offer on this weapon form; I have a very odd example which I'm not even positive is a Tumbak Lada. :confused:

Rick,

I think your knife is made in the Palembang area, mid 20th C.
It resembles in style and material a knife I traded to CharlesS about 1 1/2 years ago (don't know if he still has it to show?).
I still regret that I let it go. :(

Michael

What is the difference between tumbak lada and a sewar?

Lew

As I understand it a Tumok Lada has a distinctive squared off handle.

The name tumbok meaning "pepper" and "lada" meaning grinder. Here are some pictures of my little "Pepper Grinder."

I'm not so sure Bill; Lew's example doesn't have a squared off handle .

Hi Rick,

I was talking about mine.

Bill

So Lew's example isn't a Tumbak Lada ? :confused:
If not; what is it ?

Is this a Tumbak Lada ?
The hilt is squared but the blade curves the wrong way .
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2259

Lew,
Your small piece, is a Siraui. While your larger piece is a Tumbuk Lada.

Bill,
Nice Tumbuk Lada you have there. Have some similarity to mine. ;)

I don't think it's possible to always clearly draw the line between what is a Tumbok Lada and what is a Sewar. Also these blades show up in several regions and the reference works sometimes contradicts each other.
In van Z the blades he show as examples of a Tumbok Lada all are clearly that. But some of the blades in van Z that are examples of Sewars are "inbetween".
When I tried to classify before posting my examples I looked at three features; the upper sheath decoration (shorter and rounded vs longer and rectangular), the hilt (compressed and chubby vs longer and slimmer) and the blade (thicker and straight vs slimmer and curved).
I have enclosed two examples of what I believe is clearly a Tumbok Lada and a Sewar on this.
But what happens when a knife is 2/3 correct according to the orthodox classification?
Like my third example that clearly looks like a Tumbok Lada when in the sheath. But then the blade is more like a Sewar?
Either you can call them hybrides or you could classify them on which one of the two styles it's closest?
The problem is that very few blades I have seen do fit the strict classification. So if a knife has all the Tumbok Lada characteristics except the blade I think it's a Tumbok Lada, like f.i. Shahrial's example.
It seems as if the Tumbok Lada vs Sewar is more a collector's classification dilemma than locally used terms based on the contradictions in the original reference works?
Like the Tenegre, Binangon, Sundang, Pinuti, Bolo discussions going on within this forum on the Visayan weapons.

Very interesting thread, can someone explain when a Tumbok Lada becomes a Golok or is Golok a more generic term. Where would this piece fit?
Cheers
DrD

Drdavid,

A Golok is larger than a knife like Tumbok Lada (Pisau Tumbok Lada) or a Sewar.
How big is your knife?

I have now updated at Kampungnet with a couple of related Sumatran blades:

Sewar

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Sekin

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

and various Sumatran knives and daggers

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...bum.php&page=1


Michael

Hi Michael, you show some beautiful pieces here, and the collection on Kampung net is outstanding.
The blade length on my piece is 30cms (12"), and the hilt is 12cms.
DrD

Hi Drdavid,

I think it's hard to say what your blade is?
It has the lenght of a small Golok but I would hesitate to call it that because of the blade's shape?
Goloks, as I understand it, are made primarily for cutting and yours looks like it's made primarily for thrusting.

Another example is this blade.
It's 54 cm overall with a blade of 40 cm that could be used both for cutting and thrusting. Feels primarily like a slashing blade.
I haven't found out yet what it is?
Maybe a Golok Rembau (see Hill and van Z)?

Michael

Hi Michael
you are correct mine does not have the feel or look of a slashing weapon, but as a stabbing one it would be effective. Van Zonneveld's description of a Golok Rembau sounds pretty good, a bit bigger than a Tumbok Lada but similar shape. Thanks for your help.
cheers
David

Let me throw another term into the mix...'kirah'....I am not exactly sure how this differs from a sewar.

Any input Michael?

Lovely pieces, as usual, by the way!

Correction edit: Sorry, meant 'karih'.

Thanks Charles,

Are you sure that it's Kirah and not Karih?
What's the reference for this name?

Michael

An example of a Karih from Sumatra. Note: shorter curled hilt.

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...146c.sized.jpg

A close-up of the blade.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...146d.sized.jpg

A close-up of the hilt and upper-sheath, made of buffalo horn.
http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/albums/...146b.sized.jpg

Now this piece looks similar to the example showed in post #2.
What d'you think Alam Shah ? :)

Shahrial,

Isn't that my Karih in your post?
Or do you have its twin? :confused:

http://www.kampungnet.com.sg/modules...view_album.php

Michael

Rick,
Your blade does have its similarities, especially the profile of the blade.
Blade-design suggests that it might be a Karih, after all. :D

Yes! it is, after a closer look. :eek: (Sorry I didn't know it was yours). Pictures are linked from Persada Pusaka auction gallery in KampungNet.
So you're the lucky owner of this fine Karih. Congratulation! :) :o

I didn't pay attention on your Karih during the auction, was concentrating on acquiring Lot 111. ;)

Shahrial,

OK, that explains it.
Lot 111 is a very nice Keris!

Back to Rick's example, don't Karih have pamor on their blade?

Michael

Btw, Karih literally means mix or stir something, in Bahasa Indonesia. :)

Not necessarily, but those that I've seen are similar to yours, either pamor adeg or pamor sanak. Rick's piece still puzzling to classify. :confused: