German Sword XVI century ?

Dmitry · 8th December 2022, 03:15 AM

I read ME FECIT IOHANNE (Made by Johannes) ANNO DOMINI (in the year of our Lord ....).

Jim McDougall · 8th December 2022, 11:29 AM

Most interesting 'dusagge' and strongly resembling these types often seen from 17th into as late as 18th century in the Netherlands, but it seems the Dutch forms have obverse thumb ring on the hilt. As noted, these types of sabers/cutlasses were well known throughout Germany (from about mid 16th c. with these kinds of shell guards *) and Northern Europe. I believe in Norway sabers of this type were termed 'tessak'.
The alternating quillons of the guard seem to have notable variation in the numerous examples seen.

I think these are one of the most desirable early forms as they are most typically associated with sea service and as cutlasses, in many cases seen in pirate lore. In fact, in the lexicon of piracy, the term 'shell' is loosely noted as referring to a cutlass.

Even without the rest of the hilt, this is an attractive and keenly representative example, and in the rugged condition these are often found. I am particularly intrigued by the interestingly adapted inscription, similar to many seen on Solingen blades, and the rougher than usual lettering. If I understand correctly, ANNO DOMINI (=in the year of our Lord) should have a year with it, so curious if that is no longer distinguishable.

* "European Weapons and Armour", E.Oakeshott, 1980, p.155, fig.67

cornelistromp · 9th December 2022, 12:36 PM

it seems to me a recent reproduction, patinated and aged.

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2022, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

it seems to me a recent reproduction, patinated and aged.

Well noted, and as I mentioned, the 'inscription' is rather unbelievable.
While disappointing of course, at least a chance to examine this type of sword as a form, and see an example of the kinds of 'interpretations' that are out there.

Arcteryx · 10th December 2022, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well noted, and as I mentioned, the 'inscription' is rather unbelievable.
While disappointing of course, at least a chance to examine this type of sword as a form, and see an example of the kinds of 'interpretations' that are out there.

it is an original saber which was combined with a bayonet grip... added in the era

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2022, 11:27 PM

Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily.

Arcteryx · 11th December 2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily.

yes, thank You, but the handle in this case does not matter, I wanted to identify the saber

8th December 2022, 11:29 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Most interesting 'dusagge' and strongly resembling these types often seen from 17th into as late as 18th century in the Netherlands, but it seems the Dutch forms have obverse thumb ring on the hilt. As noted, these types of sabers/cutlasses were well known throughout Germany (from about mid 16th c. with these kinds of shell guards ) and Northern Europe. I believe in Norway sabers of this type were termed 'tessak'. The alternating quillons of the guard seem to have notable variation in the numerous examples seen. I think these are one of the most desirable early forms as they are most typically associated with sea service and as cutlasses, in many cases seen in pirate lore. In fact, in the lexicon of piracy, the term 'shell' is loosely noted as referring to a cutlass. Even without the rest of the hilt, this is an attractive and keenly representative example, and in the rugged condition these are often found. I am particularly intrigued by the interestingly adapted inscription, similar to many seen on Solingen blades, and the rougher than usual lettering. If I understand correctly, ANNO DOMINI (=in the year of our Lord) should have a year with it, so curious if that is no longer distinguishable. "European Weapons and Armour", E.Oakeshott, 1980, p.155, fig.67 Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 8th December 2022 at 11:44 AM.

10th December 2022, 11:27 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily. Attached Images

8th December 2022, 03:15 AM	#1
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I read ME FECIT IOHANNE (Made by Johannes) ANNO DOMINI (in the year of our Lord ....).

9th December 2022, 12:36 PM	#3
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	it seems to me a recent reproduction, patinated and aged.