German Sword XVI century ?

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2022, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

it seems to me a recent reproduction, patinated and aged.

Well noted, and as I mentioned, the 'inscription' is rather unbelievable.
While disappointing of course, at least a chance to examine this type of sword as a form, and see an example of the kinds of 'interpretations' that are out there.

Arcteryx · 10th December 2022, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Well noted, and as I mentioned, the 'inscription' is rather unbelievable.
While disappointing of course, at least a chance to examine this type of sword as a form, and see an example of the kinds of 'interpretations' that are out there.

it is an original saber which was combined with a bayonet grip... added in the era

Jim McDougall · 10th December 2022, 11:27 PM

Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily.

Arcteryx · 11th December 2022, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily.

yes, thank You, but the handle in this case does not matter, I wanted to identify the saber

Jim McDougall · 11th December 2022, 03:56 PM

It is true, the handle which obviously was not part of the sword originally is not of consequence specifically, but sometimes might offer context as to where this might have been put together. For example, a French brass hilt might place it in French context.

While it is suggested this may be a more modern interpretation of one of these shell guard swords, the fact that it is of a sword type which seems to have been favored literally over centuries. This is a very rudimentary munitions quality version, which means it could have been produced as a weapon for use in certain conditions or situations by other than regular military forces.
Still the placement of the very badly executed inscription is troubling, and wondering why it was placed on the blade at all.

I have an example of this kind of 'assembled' weapon of composite sword components which in from Mexican context, probably as an ersatz type of espada ancha. In rural regions of Mexico, virtually everything was 'recycled'
and this use of old sword elements seems a good example of this kind of innovation.

The hilt is of brass, clearly a briquet, most likely French; the guard is from a three bar cavalry saber; the blade is a cut down broadsword blade from the ubiquitous 'bilbo' type blades which were circulating in these regions from the Spanish period into Mexican.

Naturally the possibility of the 'creation' of these kinds of weapons by unscrupulous dealers or sellers is always present, but the optimistic side of us always wonders.....what if?

10th December 2022, 11:27 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Hilt is very similar to a French M1767 grenadiers briquet but likely one of the later examples. Looks like there was a langet. Fits quite handily. Attached Images

11th December 2022, 03:56 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	It is true, the handle which obviously was not part of the sword originally is not of consequence specifically, but sometimes might offer context as to where this might have been put together. For example, a French brass hilt might place it in French context. While it is suggested this may be a more modern interpretation of one of these shell guard swords, the fact that it is of a sword type which seems to have been favored literally over centuries. This is a very rudimentary munitions quality version, which means it could have been produced as a weapon for use in certain conditions or situations by other than regular military forces. Still the placement of the very badly executed inscription is troubling, and wondering why it was placed on the blade at all. I have an example of this kind of 'assembled' weapon of composite sword components which in from Mexican context, probably as an ersatz type of espada ancha. In rural regions of Mexico, virtually everything was 'recycled' and this use of old sword elements seems a good example of this kind of innovation. The hilt is of brass, clearly a briquet, most likely French; the guard is from a three bar cavalry saber; the blade is a cut down broadsword blade from the ubiquitous 'bilbo' type blades which were circulating in these regions from the Spanish period into Mexican. Naturally the possibility of the 'creation' of these kinds of weapons by unscrupulous dealers or sellers is always present, but the optimistic side of us always wonders.....what if? Attached Images