Heinrich Kolle

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Exending further on previously posted assumption by Don Enrique de Leguina in his work LOS MAESTROS ESPADEROS by (1897 ?) and the paper "Tres
espadas de la época de Felipe II conservadas en la Armeria del Palacio Real de Madrid" by Fernando A. Martin, the evidence that Sebastian Hernandez (and son) personal symbol was a Z and not a 3, seems to be unbeatable.


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Well proven Fernando!!! Since the use of letters (as initials or ???) is well established, and no other use of numbers seems apparent....the letter Z is it. It is hard to figure why the selection of the last letter of a name is used but as observers hundreds of years later, who knows what idiosyncrasies were at hand. With the 'P' some have suggested 'Pedro' which was indeed the name of some the makers, but again, inconsistencies prevail.

[fernando]

Jim, you will notice that a great part of the punzones listed in the nomina have letters that, to us, have nothing to do with their names ... first or family ones. Smiths were wise and they sure knew what they meant with those ... but we don't. Apparently in some cases the letter refers to the place where they came from, or worked before ... but not all.
I have sent email to a true specialist, asking for his perspective over the Hernandez punzon symbol. Hopefuly he will answer my question and has ever given some thought on this subject.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Jim, you will notice that a great part of the punzones listed in the nomina have letters that, to us, have nothing to do with their names ... first or family ones. Smiths were wise and they sure knew what they meant with those ... but we don't. Apparently in some cases the letter refers to the place where they came from, or worked before ... but not all.
I have sent email to a true specialist, asking for his perspective over the Hernandez punzon symbol. Hopefuly he will answer my question and has ever given some thought on this subject.

Thats a great point Fernando! Knowing that the Toledo mark was a T of course, it seems quite likely that the letters may have related to the locations where these smiths worked, much as your suggestion of Zaragosa. While Toledo of course carried the famed reputation, there were certainly shops in other locations surrounding the region.

I seem to have track of the history of the Palomares nomina, which you thoroughly described at some point over the years. Can you remind me of how and when this key compilation was originated? I wonder if its sources might have clues to older records that might have such lost details.

[fernando]

Alo like the 'S' in the Sahagun family punzones reflects their origin, if i recall.
Let me see if manage to upload here the Palomares article; where i guess there are no clues on what we are looking for, any how.

PS
No, too heavy to upload here; will send to you by email; and hope you can read Spanish (Castillian)


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[Triarii]

This looks more like it, but don't know any more on Moreno. 'Before 1700' may be too late.

[Triarii]

Back in the original topic, got round to cleaning up the sword that started the thread, and found this crucifixion mark on the blade.

[fernando]

Interesting; never saw one with the INRI initials.


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