DOEHOENG KASOENDAN (A Soenda Perspective)

A. G. Maisey · 5th April 2022, 08:12 AM

Absolutely correct JB.

There is another relief carving in the same location and with same time & place of origin that shows this style of wrongko too, but the carving is not as clear as this one.

Across in East Jawa at Candi Panataran (Penataran), near Blitar, state temple of Majapahit, we can find a representation of a wrongko that is 100% Bugis.

When we get to digging a bit and looking at the old, original evidence we do sometimes find a few unusual things.

A. G. Maisey · 5th April 2022, 01:31 PM

Candi Panataran, State temple of Majapahit, about 1200AD to 1450AD

jagabuwana · 6th April 2022, 05:33 AM

Yeah that does look quite Bugis-like, with what appears to be a figural hilt.

In the first relief, is much known about the social class / role of the persona holding the keris?

A. G. Maisey · 6th April 2022, 07:44 AM

In respect of hilts and dress forms, a lot has changed in the last five or six hundred years.

Here is the stele from which the kneeling figure has been taken, it shows a man & woman kneeling in front of a priest, the kneeling figure can probably be interpreted as the priest's servant.

I think it was Callenfels who interpreted this scene as Sedewa expressing his respect to Tambapetra together with Tambapetra's daughter, Pedopo.

This stele is part of a series of reliefs on stele that tells the Sudamala story --- this refers to the Murwokolo ritual to free somebody from evil (mala) and make them pure (suda).

Gustav · 6th April 2022, 01:09 PM

The sheath from Candi Sukuh could also be a form similar to the Jamprahan from Bali. Such Ladrangan without Angkup we encounter also on island of Java.

On Panataran carving the overall shape of Gambar can be compared to Bugis Sampir, but Gandar is strongly tapering, very possibly with a curl at the end, in a way comparable to Piha Kaetta sheath.

A. G. Maisey · 6th April 2022, 09:38 PM

True Gustav, but here we are looking at roots, we are not looking at forms that developed from these roots.

A. G. Maisey · 7th April 2022, 12:32 AM

To expand a little on my earlier post.

In respect of the Panataran scabbard.

I have visited Panataran --- or Penataran --- three times, in 2018 I was able to spend 10 hours there, however I have not given any time to an in depth study of Panataran.

There have been a number of studies carried out of the Panataran reliefs, perhaps the most notable would be the work done by Satyawati Suleiman. However, in spite of the work that has been done by respected academics it is still difficult to affix concrete interpretations that can be universally agreed upon, to the various reliefs.

The two major stories shown in the reliefs on the main temple are the Ramayana & and the Kresnayana, but working with published data it is not very easy to align interpretations with the actual relief carvings. This could be done, but I think it would take me a considerably longer time than I have so far had available.

As Gustav has pointed out, the gandar of the Panataran scabbard has a form that is unique amongst Javanese scabbard forms, in that it resembles the tip of the Sri Lankan piha kaetta (to use the generally accepted collector term).

I know next to nothing about Sri Lankan/Ceylonese material culture, but I seem to recall that it is very difficult to place the piha kaetta at any earlier time period than the early 1600's, when they seem to have begun to be produced in the workshops of the rulers of Kandy.

The Kingdom of Kandy was, I believe, founded in the late 1400's, Candi Panataran was constructed between circa 1190 & 1455.

It might be tempting to attribute the Panataran scabbard form to an influence from the piha kaetta form, but bearing in mind the relevant dates and the possible relationships between the Kingdom of Kandy and the kingdoms of East Jawa at the relevant times, I do feel that any similarities between the material culture of Kandy and the material culture of East Jawa, might be able to be regarded as purely coincidental.

However, since this scabbard form does seem to exist in two places that would seem rather difficult to associate one with the other, perhaps --- if there is an influence --- any influence in form might be able to be attributed to a form in some other part of South Asia that predates either Kandy or the kingdoms associated with Panataran.

I have examined this scabbard relief carving in situ, and frankly I am not absolutely convinced that the form that we now see is necessarily original, to my eye it appears that the present form could be the result of past damage and then a degree of "tidying up".

In respect of the Sukuh scabbard, I believe that we can definitely attribute later Javanese & Balinese scabbard styles to this style shown in the Sukuh reliefs. In Bali the jamprahan form of scabbard was in times past only used by religious leaders, at the present time it is not a popular form.

5th April 2022, 01:31 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Candi Panataran, State temple of Majapahit, about 1200AD to 1450AD Attached Images

6th April 2022, 07:44 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	In respect of hilts and dress forms, a lot has changed in the last five or six hundred years. Here is the stele from which the kneeling figure has been taken, it shows a man & woman kneeling in front of a priest, the kneeling figure can probably be interpreted as the priest's servant. I think it was Callenfels who interpreted this scene as Sedewa expressing his respect to Tambapetra together with Tambapetra's daughter, Pedopo. This stele is part of a series of reliefs on stele that tells the Sudamala story --- this refers to the Murwokolo ritual to free somebody from evil (mala) and make them pure (suda). Attached Images

5th April 2022, 08:12 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Absolutely correct JB. There is another relief carving in the same location and with same time & place of origin that shows this style of wrongko too, but the carving is not as clear as this one. Across in East Jawa at Candi Panataran (Penataran), near Blitar, state temple of Majapahit, we can find a representation of a wrongko that is 100% Bugis. When we get to digging a bit and looking at the old, original evidence we do sometimes find a few unusual things.

6th April 2022, 05:33 AM	#3
jagabuwana Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 290	Yeah that does look quite Bugis-like, with what appears to be a figural hilt. In the first relief, is much known about the social class / role of the persona holding the keris?

6th April 2022, 01:09 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	The sheath from Candi Sukuh could also be a form similar to the Jamprahan from Bali. Such Ladrangan without Angkup we encounter also on island of Java. On Panataran carving the overall shape of Gambar can be compared to Bugis Sampir, but Gandar is strongly tapering, very possibly with a curl at the end, in a way comparable to Piha Kaetta sheath.

6th April 2022, 09:38 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	True Gustav, but here we are looking at roots, we are not looking at forms that developed from these roots.

7th April 2022, 12:32 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	To expand a little on my earlier post. In respect of the Panataran scabbard. I have visited Panataran --- or Penataran --- three times, in 2018 I was able to spend 10 hours there, however I have not given any time to an in depth study of Panataran. There have been a number of studies carried out of the Panataran reliefs, perhaps the most notable would be the work done by Satyawati Suleiman. However, in spite of the work that has been done by respected academics it is still difficult to affix concrete interpretations that can be universally agreed upon, to the various reliefs. The two major stories shown in the reliefs on the main temple are the Ramayana & and the Kresnayana, but working with published data it is not very easy to align interpretations with the actual relief carvings. This could be done, but I think it would take me a considerably longer time than I have so far had available. As Gustav has pointed out, the gandar of the Panataran scabbard has a form that is unique amongst Javanese scabbard forms, in that it resembles the tip of the Sri Lankan piha kaetta (to use the generally accepted collector term). I know next to nothing about Sri Lankan/Ceylonese material culture, but I seem to recall that it is very difficult to place the piha kaetta at any earlier time period than the early 1600's, when they seem to have begun to be produced in the workshops of the rulers of Kandy. The Kingdom of Kandy was, I believe, founded in the late 1400's, Candi Panataran was constructed between circa 1190 & 1455. It might be tempting to attribute the Panataran scabbard form to an influence from the piha kaetta form, but bearing in mind the relevant dates and the possible relationships between the Kingdom of Kandy and the kingdoms of East Jawa at the relevant times, I do feel that any similarities between the material culture of Kandy and the material culture of East Jawa, might be able to be regarded as purely coincidental. However, since this scabbard form does seem to exist in two places that would seem rather difficult to associate one with the other, perhaps --- if there is an influence --- any influence in form might be able to be attributed to a form in some other part of South Asia that predates either Kandy or the kingdoms associated with Panataran. I have examined this scabbard relief carving in situ, and frankly I am not absolutely convinced that the form that we now see is necessarily original, to my eye it appears that the present form could be the result of past damage and then a degree of "tidying up". In respect of the Sukuh scabbard, I believe that we can definitely attribute later Javanese & Balinese scabbard styles to this style shown in the Sukuh reliefs. In Bali the jamprahan form of scabbard was in times past only used by religious leaders, at the present time it is not a popular form.