Shamshir - Naga?

DavidFriedman · 3rd July 2021, 12:29 PM

Thanks Kubir,
I will look for the examples you mentioned in the MET and Rivkins book on Eastern Swords. I don’t think I have that book yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi, Very nice Wootz blade, I think it's a dragon or Azhdaha. A similar blade is displayed in the MET catalogue if I'm not mistaken and the same sword can be seen in Rivkin's book on Eastern swords. It's mid 19th c.

mariusgmioc · 3rd July 2021, 01:14 PM

Hello David,

I have major doubts about the age of this sword. I suspect it to be a 20th century Indian/Pakistani panoply hanger.

First, the scabbard is a mixture of Turkish (stitched with visible silver thread), Persian and Indian (no chape) styles, with both the leather and the silver thread in too good to be true condition.

Second, the hilt (with lanyard hole) is a mixture of Persian and Turkish style, and the carvings do not appear to be Persian because of style and quality, while the applied gold (which doesn't seem to be koftgari) is in too good condition.

Third, the blade is not of Persian shape and appears to be of recent Indian/Pakistani manufacture, with some etched patination (exactly the patination I usually get when etching for wootz a blade that is not wootz).

1. Can you please send us detailed photos of the wootz pattern?!

2. Is the blade sharp?

3. Can you show us a detailed photo of the yelman portion?

DavidFriedman · 3rd July 2021, 11:52 PM

Here are some closer pictures alongside some other period Qajar swords/sabers in my collection. Perhaps these pictures will give a clearer perspective. It is in the best shape I have ever personally seen for a saber of this age. I believe it was either recently cleaned, and or kept behind glass or some such place. I do not believe at all that this is a modern piece, as I have seen many of those and they are horrendous at best.

I do appreciate your input though and look to get broader perspectives.

DavidFriedman · 3rd July 2021, 11:55 PM

More pics

mariusgmioc · 3rd July 2021, 11:57 PM

Thank you David for the additional photos!

The wootz pattern is consistent with Qajar period wootz.

So I guess I was wrong.

DavidFriedman · 4th July 2021, 12:01 AM

Thanks, My apologies for lousy photos earlier. I’d be very unhappy if it was a modern one lol. I bought it to resell it, but I’m planning to keep this one as it plays delightfully. It’s funny how things change when we actually get to hold a sword. The silver handled one looks nicer to me in form, but wields very top heavy. I’m thinking cavalry maneuvers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Thank you David for the additional photos!

The wootz pattern is consistent with Qajar period wootz.

So I guess I was wrong.

Philip · 4th July 2021, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

The wootz pattern is consistent with Qajar period wootz.

it's also consistent with a lot of Ottoman blades.

3rd July 2021, 01:14 PM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	Hello David, I have major doubts about the age of this sword. I suspect it to be a 20th century Indian/Pakistani panoply hanger. First, the scabbard is a mixture of Turkish (stitched with visible silver thread), Persian and Indian (no chape) styles, with both the leather and the silver thread in too good to be true condition. Second, the hilt (with lanyard hole) is a mixture of Persian and Turkish style, and the carvings do not appear to be Persian because of style and quality, while the applied gold (which doesn't seem to be koftgari) is in too good condition. Third, the blade is not of Persian shape and appears to be of recent Indian/Pakistani manufacture, with some etched patination (exactly the patination I usually get when etching for wootz a blade that is not wootz). 1. Can you please send us detailed photos of the wootz pattern?! 2. Is the blade sharp? 3. Can you show us a detailed photo of the yelman portion? Last edited by mariusgmioc; 3rd July 2021 at 02:32 PM.

3rd July 2021, 11:52 PM	#3
DavidFriedman Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 113	Condition report Here are some closer pictures alongside some other period Qajar swords/sabers in my collection. Perhaps these pictures will give a clearer perspective. It is in the best shape I have ever personally seen for a saber of this age. I believe it was either recently cleaned, and or kept behind glass or some such place. I do not believe at all that this is a modern piece, as I have seen many of those and they are horrendous at best. I do appreciate your input though and look to get broader perspectives. Attached Images

3rd July 2021, 11:55 PM	#4
DavidFriedman Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Posts: 113	More pics More pics Attached Images

3rd July 2021, 11:57 PM	#5
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,912	Thank you David for the additional photos! The wootz pattern is consistent with Qajar period wootz. So I guess I was wrong.