a mystery to me

Jim McDougall · 24th May 2021, 04:44 PM

Actually I dont really follow battle tactics or strategy either, and remain focused on arms history.
The use of the lance was well known historically in Europe, and during the Civil War there was a regiment of lancers formed (6th Pennsylvania, Rush's lancers)in 1861. By 1863 they gave up the lances for Sharp's carbines.
The initial training was disastrous, and they were more danger to each other than anyone else and the 9 ft. lances became a hinderance in the kinds of wooded areas etc.

With the Mexicans at San Pascual, Pico's forces were not highly trained cavalry, but vaqueros, local horsemen from ranchos who were used to using the lance for hunting as well as prodding cattle. There was one unit of local militia, also made up of these local ranchers whose training was primarily the same practical use.
Their strength was in riding skills, knowing the terrain, having actual rideable and sturdy horses, and using the lance, which had been a primary weapon and tool for centuries in the Spanish frontiers in America.

urbanspaceman · 25th May 2021, 01:31 PM

Firstly: sorry to hear of your medical troubles Fernando; best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Secondly: I think two pages got turned over regarding your post because I am definitely missing something.
Perhaps someone in better condition (assuming you are troubled by posting) could clarify this issue for me.

Jim McDougall · 25th May 2021, 03:48 PM

Me too, what guy?

fernando · 25th May 2021, 04:22 PM

I am deeply, deeply sorry guys; that was some wrong post in a wrong thread.
And thank you so much for your wishes on my surgery recovery

.

urbanspaceman · 25th May 2021, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I am deeply, deeply sorry guys; that was some wrong post in a wrong thread.
And thank you so much for your wishes on my surgery recovery

.

No, don't worry, it was not a problem, just a mystery.

fernando · 25th May 2021, 07:47 PM

Not that i have been folowing this thread, with all 'nuances' involving both the clash between short and long edged weapons, or and edged weapons versus firearms, among different cultures. Whether memorized in Californio episodes or somewhere in Europe, was only a different time delay of one of the parties before inexorable evolution took place (save me from the dumb philosophy).
Matchlock was good and stood long until flintlock showed up; then comes Forsyth with the fulminant cap and goodbye lazy flint system. Then came Lefaucheux with the pinfire whole cartridge (1830's); better was Flobert with his rimfire (pinless) cartridge ( ho ... yelowboy). But of course, all had the 'right' to have their failures, one at a time.
But as we are collectors, (ignition) system liabilities are not the big issue, sometimes the opposite, as make them rarer. The pistol posted in this thread is a great collectors item. Note that is not a double action but a single action with a 'trick' to double act ... which makes it unique.
All the above tale to get me courage to show you a real bizarre ingnition system, one worthy of its author ... a dentist.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=bizarre

urbanspaceman · 25th May 2021, 08:17 PM

I actually think that was an altogether better system that the perc' caps which you couldn't load with gloved hands and which were also prone to falling off..
Shame they never adapted that system for revolvers.
If the cap-roll paper was heavily waxed, and consequently waterproof, and you had multiple pre-loaded cylinders, you were well ahead of the game.
Fascinating. Thank-you Fernando: my area of interest indeed.

urbanspaceman · 25th May 2021, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

The pistol posted in this thread is a great collectors item.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=bizarre

I haven't bought this pistol yet as I am waiting on the auction of a Sciavona which is seriously missing from my collection. If it proves to rich for my wallet then I suspect I will buy the pistol.
As Fernando says, it's a great collector's item.

25th May 2021, 01:31 PM	#2
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 722	Firstly: sorry to hear of your medical troubles Fernando; best wishes for a speedy recovery. Secondly: I think two pages got turned over regarding your post because I am definitely missing something. Perhaps someone in better condition (assuming you are troubled by posting) could clarify this issue for me. Last edited by fernando; 25th May 2021 at 04:20 PM.

25th May 2021, 07:47 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Once i am recovering fast Not that i have been folowing this thread, with all 'nuances' involving both the clash between short and long edged weapons, or and edged weapons versus firearms, among different cultures. Whether memorized in Californio episodes or somewhere in Europe, was only a different time delay of one of the parties before inexorable evolution took place (save me from the dumb philosophy). Matchlock was good and stood long until flintlock showed up; then comes Forsyth with the fulminant cap and goodbye lazy flint system. Then came Lefaucheux with the pinfire whole cartridge (1830's); better was Flobert with his rimfire (pinless) cartridge ( ho ... yelowboy). But of course, all had the 'right' to have their failures, one at a time. But as we are collectors, (ignition) system liabilities are not the big issue, sometimes the opposite, as make them rarer. The pistol posted in this thread is a great collectors item. Note that is not a double action but a single action with a 'trick' to double act ... which makes it unique. All the above tale to get me courage to show you a real bizarre ingnition system, one worthy of its author ... a dentist. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=bizarre

25th May 2021, 08:17 PM	#7
urbanspaceman Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Tyneside. North-East England Posts: 722	Cap Gun I actually think that was an altogether better system that the perc' caps which you couldn't load with gloved hands and which were also prone to falling off.. Shame they never adapted that system for revolvers. If the cap-roll paper was heavily waxed, and consequently waterproof, and you had multiple pre-loaded cylinders, you were well ahead of the game. Fascinating. Thank-you Fernando: my area of interest indeed.

24th May 2021, 04:44 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,676	Actually I dont really follow battle tactics or strategy either, and remain focused on arms history. The use of the lance was well known historically in Europe, and during the Civil War there was a regiment of lancers formed (6th Pennsylvania, Rush's lancers)in 1861. By 1863 they gave up the lances for Sharp's carbines. The initial training was disastrous, and they were more danger to each other than anyone else and the 9 ft. lances became a hinderance in the kinds of wooded areas etc. With the Mexicans at San Pascual, Pico's forces were not highly trained cavalry, but vaqueros, local horsemen from ranchos who were used to using the lance for hunting as well as prodding cattle. There was one unit of local militia, also made up of these local ranchers whose training was primarily the same practical use. Their strength was in riding skills, knowing the terrain, having actual rideable and sturdy horses, and using the lance, which had been a primary weapon and tool for centuries in the Spanish frontiers in America.

25th May 2021, 03:48 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,676	Me too, what guy?

25th May 2021, 04:22 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am deeply, deeply sorry guys; that was some wrong post in a wrong thread. And thank you so much for your wishes on my surgery recovery .