The EARLY MAKERS TRADE MARKS thread... lost and partly restored.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:56 PM

Old 14th March 2016, 09:48 AM #277

Posted by:
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman,
on the border with the UAE

Originally Posted by joyfulkitten
Thanks for your information everyone. Here is some of the information requested. The Sumarian link was from some research about the hilt shape. My collection is primarily knives and daggers, I am not as familiar with swords and their details. The marks were very confusing. I found similarities to each from across cultures. However, I could not find anything that looked identical to any one, let alone the combination.
I think the idea of it being a theatrical blade is a good one. There is something about the entirety of the piece that leans that way.vDoes anyone know how I can confirm that, so I can research what it may have been created for?
I tried to put a picture of the entire blade up, but the size is too big, I had to cut it down to just the hilt to get it to upload. (Quote)

Salaams JK, I see what you mean and show a Sumerian dagger hilt. I suggest that this likeness in the blade stamp is purely co incidental and posit that the theatrical nature of the weapon is more likely.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

(missing attachments)
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:56 PM

Old 14th March 2016, 11:40 AM #278

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

Originally Posted by joyfulkitten
... I tried to put a picture of the entire blade up, but the size is too big, I had to cut it down to just the hilt to get it to upload. (Quote)

If you don't know of any resizing programs, like this one:

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/...ppowertoys.mspx

You may exceptionally send the pictures to me and i will resize them and upload them for you.
fernando@vikingsword.com
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:57 PM

Old 23rd July 2016, 04:49 PM #279

Posted by:
corrado26
Member

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany

Originally Posted by fernando
They also call this symbol a christogram. (Quote)

This Nomen Sacrum IHS derives from the transkription of the first two and the last letter of the Greek name of Jesus - Iota-Eta-Sigma-Omikron-Ypsilon-Sigma or ΙΗΣΟΥΣ, = JESUS. The I is the Greek Iota, the H = Eta and the S = Sigma. So it has nothing to do with the Jesuit-association.
corrado26
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:57 PM

Old 23rd July 2016, 06:28 PM #280

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal

Was i so distant, Corrado ?

"The JHS or IHS monogram of the name of Jesus (or traditional Christogram symbol of western Christianity), derived from the first three letters of the Greek name of Jesus, Iota-Eta-Sigma (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ). Partly based on memories of church decorations. Has some degree of resemblance to a portion of the emblem of the Jesuits, due to common medieval influences (see Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus), but is not exactly the same, nor intended to be so."
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(missing attachments)
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:59 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 06:52 AM #281

Posted by:
corrado26
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Black Forest, Germany

No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise.
corrado26
.

fernando · 19th October 2017, 03:59 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 07:54 AM #282

Posted by:
kronckew
Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CSA Consulate,
Rm. 101, Glos. UK

further to that: it's one of the earliest christian decorations. , Ichthys was the offspring of the ancient sea goddess Atargatis, so was a perfect secret cover symbol.

from the writings of the immortal god of knowledge, wikipedia:

The ichthys or ichthus (/ˈɪkθəs, from the Greek ikhthýs (ἰχθύς, "fish"), is a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish. It was used by early Christians as a secret Christian symbol and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish".

ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthus) is a backronym/acrostic for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour".

Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed".
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God".
Upsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)uios (Υἱός), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior".

(missing attachments)
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fernando · 19th October 2017, 04:00 PM

Old 24th July 2016, 10:37 AM #283

Posted by:
fernando
Lead Moderator European Armoury

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 5,885

Originally Posted by corrado26
No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise.
corrado26 (Quote)

I took it like a correction, not a criticism ... and i saw nothing wrong with that .
,

19th October 2017, 03:56 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 14th March 2016, 09:48 AM #277 Posted by: Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Originally Posted by joyfulkitten Thanks for your information everyone. Here is some of the information requested. The Sumarian link was from some research about the hilt shape. My collection is primarily knives and daggers, I am not as familiar with swords and their details. The marks were very confusing. I found similarities to each from across cultures. However, I could not find anything that looked identical to any one, let alone the combination. I think the idea of it being a theatrical blade is a good one. There is something about the entirety of the piece that leans that way.vDoes anyone know how I can confirm that, so I can research what it may have been created for? I tried to put a picture of the entire blade up, but the size is too big, I had to cut it down to just the hilt to get it to upload. (Quote) Salaams JK, I see what you mean and show a Sumerian dagger hilt. I suggest that this likeness in the blade stamp is purely co incidental and posit that the theatrical nature of the weapon is more likely. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:29 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:57 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 23rd July 2016, 04:49 PM #279 Posted by: corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Originally Posted by fernando They also call this symbol a christogram. (Quote) This Nomen Sacrum IHS derives from the transkription of the first two and the last letter of the Greek name of Jesus - Iota-Eta-Sigma-Omikron-Ypsilon-Sigma or ΙΗΣΟΥΣ, = JESUS. The I is the Greek Iota, the H = Eta and the S = Sigma. So it has nothing to do with the Jesuit-association. corrado26 . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:45 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:57 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Christogram Old 23rd July 2016, 06:28 PM #280 Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Was i so distant, Corrado ? "The JHS or IHS monogram of the name of Jesus (or traditional Christogram symbol of western Christianity), derived from the first three letters of the Greek name of Jesus, Iota-Eta-Sigma (ΙΗΣΟΥΣ). Partly based on memories of church decorations. Has some degree of resemblance to a portion of the emblem of the Jesuits, due to common medieval influences (see Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus), but is not exactly the same, nor intended to be so." . (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:29 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:59 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th July 2016, 06:52 AM #281 Posted by: corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise. corrado26 . Last edited by fernando; 20th October 2017 at 04:47 PM.

19th October 2017, 03:59 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th July 2016, 07:54 AM #282 Posted by: kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CSA Consulate, Rm. 101, Glos. UK further to that: it's one of the earliest christian decorations. , Ichthys was the offspring of the ancient sea goddess Atargatis, so was a perfect secret cover symbol. from the writings of the immortal god of knowledge, wikipedia: The ichthys or ichthus (/ˈɪkθəs, from the Greek ikhthýs (ἰχθύς, "fish"), is a symbol consisting of two intersecting arcs, the ends of the right side extending beyond the meeting point so as to resemble the profile of a fish. It was used by early Christians as a secret Christian symbol and now known colloquially as the "sign of the fish" or the "Jesus fish". ΙΧΘΥΣ (Ichthus) is a backronym/acrostic for "Ίησοῦς Χριστός, Θεοῦ Υἱός, Σωτήρ", (Iēsous Christos, Theou Yios, Sōtēr), which translates into English as "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Saviour". Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus". Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed". Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos, Greek for "God". Upsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)uios (Υἱός), Greek for "Son". Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior". (missing attachments) . Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:30 PM.

19th October 2017, 04:00 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Old 24th July 2016, 10:37 AM #283 Posted by: fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 5,885 Originally Posted by corrado26 No, you have been quite near. I just wanted to show the origin of this abbriviation and it was not my intention to criticise. corrado26 (Quote) I took it like a correction, not a criticism ... and i saw nothing wrong with that . , Last edited by fernando; 21st October 2017 at 06:30 PM.