Pirate swords and weapons

Jim McDougall · 3rd August 2015, 06:02 PM

Actually Rick, I still do have a very high opinion of him, and what I wrote were the results of my own impartial research, in which I spent quite a few hours and various approaches. I did not realize that what I wrote appeared gauged to what comments you made, although in discussion they were of course seemingly pertinent.

As I mentioned, my suggestions toward optimistic alternate possibilities were placed respectfully as just that , as prudent in circumstances such as these where sometimes disparity in opinions exists. I do indeed believe what I will, but realize others may as well. What I failed to remember is the often unfortunate result of expressing opinions here, and honestly thought what I had tendered was data from research and talking points.

Sorry about the dander

a lot of it going around lately, and restraint is always good for many reasons, legality notwithstanding .

Thanks for the apology
Jim

Rick · 3rd August 2015, 06:38 PM

Agree, and consider the subject dropped on my part .

Rick · 20th September 2015, 04:16 PM

Just seen on the History Channel :
Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar
Give it a look and draw your own conclusions .

My conclusion:
Great TV, far fetched; but a payday for certain folks .

Ian · 20th September 2015, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Just seen on the History Channel :
Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar
Give it a look and draw your own conclusions .

My conclusion:
Great TV, far fetched; but a payday for certain folks .

Yes, I saw that too Rick. A real stretch IMHO. There's always a good excuse when the buried site comes up empty--"someone moved it." The guy from Minneapolis must make a good living off these treasure tales. He had an episode on Captain Kidd's treasure too. If there was anything to his treasure hunts we would have heard about it through regular news channels by now.

I wonder who payrolls this stuff--networks, advertisers.

Ian

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2015, 05:39 PM

I have to hand it to this guy, he is a master of 'lore', however at the expense of any true comprehension of real history. I admire the sense of 'magic' and excitement that he theatrically creates, and I admit that I very much miss sometimes. It was fun being a kid and the thrill of believing all of this stuff.

Even so, as when I started this thread, the study of the 'actual' pirates has proven fascinating, and these often bizarre machinations of the lore surrounding them in popular media today is more fun and laughable entertainment than anything else . The masses are easily reached today via many venues and thus these 'romps' or I should say 'tramplings' through history are big time money makers!! far more than any 'treasure' the pirates might have realized !

Naturally, this guy, and the producers certainly must be aware of the truth behind much of this lore, and probably deftly craft these 'adventures' around that material for the thrill of the less informed, and hysterical entertainment of those of us who actually study these topics.

The thoughts of Masonic connection to the pirates, and the skull and crossbones to piratic associations with the Templars are long standing prompts that have been heavily played in historical studies of pirates.
These are of course tenuous at best, but as always, tempting as we slip into the deeply held lore and magical mystery of piracy itself.

It is the writers who created these wonderful myths, from Washington Irving in 1824, who relied on the often sensationalized accounts of earlier writers. These then continued embellishment and expansion into the works of Poe and of course Stevenson.

The truth in the history of these often mysterious figures we collectively know as pirates is fascinating........but these TV and popular media versions are FUN

and gotta admit, still love "Pirates of the Caribbean" !! Pretty much the same thing, but still addicting.

kronckew · 21st September 2015, 08:40 PM

didn't see that one. we had a 'bible' thingy here the other night supposed to be about a historian who 'found' the tower of babel. after wasting an hour, they conclude in the last few minutes that it is somewhere in so. west iraq, leaving the vaunted historian in the sinai looking at rock paintings of boats. no pics of the tower ruins, no expedition, no continued next week. ultimately unsatifying & a wasted hour i cannot relive. history makes good TV, but only when it is true or at least logical and well presented. someone once said about telling a story, start at the beginning, work thru to the end. then stop. when they stop before the end, that is annoying more than informative.

Rick · 21st September 2015, 09:06 PM

Ian, I think that History, Discovery and National Geographic fund most of these shows and provide a living for folks who wouldn't ordinarily make much dough .

Stuff like this sells adverts these days .

3rd August 2015, 06:38 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Agree, and consider the subject dropped on my part . Last edited by Rick; 3rd August 2015 at 07:00 PM.

20th September 2015, 04:16 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	The Plot Thickens Just seen on the History Channel : Pirate Treasure of the Knights Templar Give it a look and draw your own conclusions . My conclusion: Great TV, far fetched; but a payday for certain folks .

3rd August 2015, 06:02 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Actually Rick, I still do have a very high opinion of him, and what I wrote were the results of my own impartial research, in which I spent quite a few hours and various approaches. I did not realize that what I wrote appeared gauged to what comments you made, although in discussion they were of course seemingly pertinent. As I mentioned, my suggestions toward optimistic alternate possibilities were placed respectfully as just that , as prudent in circumstances such as these where sometimes disparity in opinions exists. I do indeed believe what I will, but realize others may as well. What I failed to remember is the often unfortunate result of expressing opinions here, and honestly thought what I had tendered was data from research and talking points. Sorry about the dander a lot of it going around lately, and restraint is always good for many reasons, legality notwithstanding . Thanks for the apology Jim

21st September 2015, 05:39 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	I have to hand it to this guy, he is a master of 'lore', however at the expense of any true comprehension of real history. I admire the sense of 'magic' and excitement that he theatrically creates, and I admit that I very much miss sometimes. It was fun being a kid and the thrill of believing all of this stuff. Even so, as when I started this thread, the study of the 'actual' pirates has proven fascinating, and these often bizarre machinations of the lore surrounding them in popular media today is more fun and laughable entertainment than anything else . The masses are easily reached today via many venues and thus these 'romps' or I should say 'tramplings' through history are big time money makers!! far more than any 'treasure' the pirates might have realized ! Naturally, this guy, and the producers certainly must be aware of the truth behind much of this lore, and probably deftly craft these 'adventures' around that material for the thrill of the less informed, and hysterical entertainment of those of us who actually study these topics. The thoughts of Masonic connection to the pirates, and the skull and crossbones to piratic associations with the Templars are long standing prompts that have been heavily played in historical studies of pirates. These are of course tenuous at best, but as always, tempting as we slip into the deeply held lore and magical mystery of piracy itself. It is the writers who created these wonderful myths, from Washington Irving in 1824, who relied on the often sensationalized accounts of earlier writers. These then continued embellishment and expansion into the works of Poe and of course Stevenson. The truth in the history of these often mysterious figures we collectively know as pirates is fascinating........but these TV and popular media versions are FUN and gotta admit, still love "Pirates of the Caribbean" !! Pretty much the same thing, but still addicting.

21st September 2015, 08:40 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	didn't see that one. we had a 'bible' thingy here the other night supposed to be about a historian who 'found' the tower of babel. after wasting an hour, they conclude in the last few minutes that it is somewhere in so. west iraq, leaving the vaunted historian in the sinai looking at rock paintings of boats. no pics of the tower ruins, no expedition, no continued next week. ultimately unsatifying & a wasted hour i cannot relive. history makes good TV, but only when it is true or at least logical and well presented. someone once said about telling a story, start at the beginning, work thru to the end. then stop. when they stop before the end, that is annoying more than informative.

21st September 2015, 09:06 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Ian, I think that History, Discovery and National Geographic fund most of these shows and provide a living for folks who wouldn't ordinarily make much dough . Stuff like this sells adverts these days .