A Strange Tulwar

Jim McDougall · 1st September 2012, 03:33 AM

How did we miss this one????!!
Most unusual fullering, the tegha suggestions as far as we got. What about this fullering, the sun and moon symbols curiously placed at strategic location on blade.

Atlantia · 1st September 2012, 02:59 PM

It looks like the lovechild of a Tulwar and a Khopesh!
Very unusual blade form.

Robert · 1st September 2012, 03:26 PM

For some reason the blade and the fullering both look African to me.

Regards,
Robert

Jim McDougall · 2nd September 2012, 03:03 PM

LOL Gene!!

It does indeed look like that sort of product!

Robert, what an excellent suggestion, and the curvature as well as the scribed profiled lines as 'fullering' does resemble certain Congo 'sickle' type weapons such as the nsakara. There does seem to be a certain merit to this suggestion as it has been well established that there was considerable emigration from India into Africa. It seems there were generations of workers there in Kenya and certainly other regions. Perhaps an African blade might have been mounted on a tulwar hilt.

My thinking was headed another direction, and mostly prompted by the unusual styling on the sunburst marking, which reminds me somewhat of similar seen associated with the Kalash tribes of Chitral regions. These are a primarily ancestral to the tribes known as Kafirs who occupied areas known as Kafiristan until the 1880s (now Nuristan). With thier animist traditions they resisted submission to the Emir of Afghanistan Abdur Rahman Khan and fled back to the areas of Chitral.
The sun and moon are of course widely used astral motif in the west and well as east, and Rajput clans, as well as similar in southern India and Sri Lanka are well known.
I would note that placement of certain imbuements such as symbols or markings are often placed at strategic locations on Indian blades, the three dots or 'trimurti' being one such instance, often near fuller terminals. I am not aware of such features emplaced in this way on African blades.

Possibly this curious blade may be some type of ceremonial or votive weapon used by these tribal people?
Still, the African idea intrigues me as well.

I hope we can pursue further!!! Most interesting.

Best regards,
Jim

* attached Congo nsakara, I think this was Luc's

ariel · 2nd September 2012, 05:46 PM

Funny, but it looks like shotel to me, too.
The quality of the " finishing work" is kind of... african :-)
And the geometry of the blade, with the downward slant at the base of the blade is quite shotel-ish.

kronckew · 2nd September 2012, 06:05 PM

one thing not mentioned, is it sharp on both edges - full length inside the curve as well as outside or partial on one or the other? the tulwar guard placement is correct for an edge on the outside of the curve rather than for use as a sickle type weapon. as the initial photo was ''upside down'' it may have looked more sickle-ish, here it is ''rightside up''

Atlantia · 2nd September 2012, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

one thing not mentioned, is it sharp on both edges - full length inside the curve as well as outside or partial on one or the other? the tulwar guard placement is correct for an edge on the outside of the curve rather than for use as a sickle type weapon. as the initial photo was ''upside down'' it may have looked more sickle-ish, here it is ''rightside up''

It does look that way Kronk! Well noticed.
Can it actually be?

Perhaps the OP will comment?

The point looks very indian though.

Atlantia · 2nd September 2012, 06:24 PM

If that back edge IS actually sharp then the ball is still in the air.
If not, then I suspect that what were are actually seeing is a variant of the 'Sosun pata' with a wide almost 'Tegha-esq' blade profile.
Probobly 19thC, and 'villlager' grade.
A nice thing, worth cleaning up I'd say.

2nd September 2012, 03:03 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	LOL Gene!! It does indeed look like that sort of product! Robert, what an excellent suggestion, and the curvature as well as the scribed profiled lines as 'fullering' does resemble certain Congo 'sickle' type weapons such as the nsakara. There does seem to be a certain merit to this suggestion as it has been well established that there was considerable emigration from India into Africa. It seems there were generations of workers there in Kenya and certainly other regions. Perhaps an African blade might have been mounted on a tulwar hilt. My thinking was headed another direction, and mostly prompted by the unusual styling on the sunburst marking, which reminds me somewhat of similar seen associated with the Kalash tribes of Chitral regions. These are a primarily ancestral to the tribes known as Kafirs who occupied areas known as Kafiristan until the 1880s (now Nuristan). With thier animist traditions they resisted submission to the Emir of Afghanistan Abdur Rahman Khan and fled back to the areas of Chitral. The sun and moon are of course widely used astral motif in the west and well as east, and Rajput clans, as well as similar in southern India and Sri Lanka are well known. I would note that placement of certain imbuements such as symbols or markings are often placed at strategic locations on Indian blades, the three dots or 'trimurti' being one such instance, often near fuller terminals. I am not aware of such features emplaced in this way on African blades. Possibly this curious blade may be some type of ceremonial or votive weapon used by these tribal people? Still, the African idea intrigues me as well. I hope we can pursue further!!! Most interesting. Best regards, Jim * attached Congo nsakara, I think this was Luc's Attached Images

2nd September 2012, 06:05 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,215	one thing not mentioned, is it sharp on both edges - full length inside the curve as well as outside or partial on one or the other? the tulwar guard placement is correct for an edge on the outside of the curve rather than for use as a sickle type weapon. as the initial photo was ''upside down'' it may have looked more sickle-ish, here it is ''rightside up'' Attached Images

2nd September 2012, 06:24 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	If that back edge IS actually sharp then the ball is still in the air. If not, then I suspect that what were are actually seeing is a variant of the 'Sosun pata' with a wide almost 'Tegha-esq' blade profile. Probobly 19thC, and 'villlager' grade. A nice thing, worth cleaning up I'd say. Attached Images

1st September 2012, 03:33 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	How did we miss this one????!! Most unusual fullering, the tegha suggestions as far as we got. What about this fullering, the sun and moon symbols curiously placed at strategic location on blade.

1st September 2012, 02:59 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It looks like the lovechild of a Tulwar and a Khopesh! Very unusual blade form.

1st September 2012, 03:26 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	For some reason the blade and the fullering both look African to me. Regards, Robert

2nd September 2012, 05:46 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Funny, but it looks like shotel to me, too. The quality of the " finishing work" is kind of... african :-) And the geometry of the blade, with the downward slant at the base of the blade is quite shotel-ish.