Koummya with Bayonet blade?

stephen wood · 12th February 2009, 12:16 PM

This looks to be a Koummya but with the blade from a knife bayonet (blade length around 32cm).

Do the "straight" ones have a particular designation?

Many thanks

TVV · 12th February 2009, 05:48 PM

I have read that straight blade daggers with a koummaya hilt would be called janwi. Most of the ones I have seen, mainly in this forum, had blades made from French bayonets. However, in this case I do not think this is a bayonet blade.
Regards,
Teodor

stephen wood · 12th February 2009, 10:55 PM

Thanks Teodor, I think you're right about the blade - I can't find a match in a bayonet reference book (especially not a French one) so the blade is local or ground down from a bayonet (perhaps).

Gonzalo G · 13th February 2009, 02:20 AM

I wouldn´t call this a koumiyya handle, tough handle and sheat are obviously related to the koumiyyas. Thank you Teodor. I will search in the forum a little more about this item.
Regards

Gonzalo

ward · 13th February 2009, 07:46 AM

It is a koumiyya Gonzalo, but not a very old one so the form of the grip has wandered a little. This is a major problem with studying forms, new developments replace old ones very quickly especially now with the internet available for reference (and copying.) I see these for sale in Morocco but they ask a lot for them. Don't find really good old pieces at all there.

Jim McDougall · 13th February 2009, 05:51 PM

This is a koummya form dagger, modern as noted. As also has been noted, these representations of traditional form weapons are commercially oriented and as with most volume produced items, often subtle variations seek to attract attention of one product vs. another. In many cases of course, it is the personal style imbued by the maker, probably very much as was done in the times when these were actually used weapons.

It seems that the work on these may in some ways reflect artistic license in employing cultural symbolism, which is why the hilt form is so different in this case. A very good book that would add a great deal of information pertaining to this aspect of material culture shown in jewelry styles is,
"Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher (2004). Incredible photography and great photos showing the forms used in the Sahara, Tuareg styles, Moroccan and others, with great clues for looking at many of these more modern weapon interpretations.

All best regards,
Jim

12th February 2009, 12:16 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Koummya with Bayonet blade? This looks to be a Koummya but with the blade from a knife bayonet (blade length around 32cm). Do the "straight" ones have a particular designation? Many thanks Attached Images

12th February 2009, 05:48 PM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,622	I have read that straight blade daggers with a koummaya hilt would be called janwi. Most of the ones I have seen, mainly in this forum, had blades made from French bayonets. However, in this case I do not think this is a bayonet blade. Regards, Teodor

12th February 2009, 10:55 PM	#3
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	Thanks Teodor, I think you're right about the blade - I can't find a match in a bayonet reference book (especially not a French one) so the blade is local or ground down from a bayonet (perhaps).

13th February 2009, 02:20 AM	#4
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	I wouldn´t call this a koumiyya handle, tough handle and sheat are obviously related to the koumiyyas. Thank you Teodor. I will search in the forum a little more about this item. Regards Gonzalo

13th February 2009, 07:46 AM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	It is a koumiyya Gonzalo, but not a very old one so the form of the grip has wandered a little. This is a major problem with studying forms, new developments replace old ones very quickly especially now with the internet available for reference (and copying.) I see these for sale in Morocco but they ask a lot for them. Don't find really good old pieces at all there.

13th February 2009, 05:51 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,945	This is a koummya form dagger, modern as noted. As also has been noted, these representations of traditional form weapons are commercially oriented and as with most volume produced items, often subtle variations seek to attract attention of one product vs. another. In many cases of course, it is the personal style imbued by the maker, probably very much as was done in the times when these were actually used weapons. It seems that the work on these may in some ways reflect artistic license in employing cultural symbolism, which is why the hilt form is so different in this case. A very good book that would add a great deal of information pertaining to this aspect of material culture shown in jewelry styles is, "Africa Adorned" by Angela Fisher (2004). Incredible photography and great photos showing the forms used in the Sahara, Tuareg styles, Moroccan and others, with great clues for looking at many of these more modern weapon interpretations. All best regards, Jim