Yataghan, Balkan?

Nagawarrior · 9th May 2008, 01:57 AM

Is this a Balkan Yataghan? How Does one differentiate between regions? I've read through Tirri's book and it offers little specifics. It does indicate the prolific use of Yataghan in the Balkan region and that the "ears" are of larger size. Thanks.
Stephen

TVV · 9th May 2008, 02:38 AM

Balkan indeed. When it comes to differentiating between yataghans from dofferent regions, it is similar to keris - you watch for details such as the size of ears, the decoration on the bolster and the band around the hilt, different techniques, such as repousse, gilting and niello, etc. I do not think there is a deffinitive reference, although Astvatsaturian's book on Turkish Arms is very helpful. And since it is hard to explain, it can be really frustrating - for me it is frustrating when it comes to qamas - I can distinguish the Balkan and to a degree the Turkish and Persian ones, but the ones from the Caucasus are still a mystery to me to a large degree.
Very nice yataghan by the way, congratulations! Very nice dark patina on the walruss scales.

Nagawarrior · 9th May 2008, 03:55 AM

Thanks Theodor. Good news. I find the region very interesting and must study more of the history. Can you further pinpoint a specific region within the Balkans, such as Bosnia/Herzegovina? I'm particularly interested in this region.
Stephen

ariel · 9th May 2008, 04:52 AM

Most Balkan yataghans come from the Ottoman
-controlled areas: Bosnia, Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria.
Indeen it is difficult to distinguish between them, with the exception of longish and round-eared Greek ones, Sarajevo production ( " radioactive sign") and Bulgarian karakulaks ( which were in fact not weapons as such but rather herder knives, although on occasion....

).
There are several good books:"Zbirka Yatagana" by Dora Boskovic ( Croatian Zagreb Museum collection) and , less so, " Weaponry of the past" by Nikola Daskalov and Vyara Kovacheva ( Bulgarian collections).
From Serbia/Bosnia yataghans moved to Croatia and even Italy, but rarely did they become popular there: the Great Divide between the Orthodox/Catholic schism transformed into the Ottoman/Western European one. And the twain never met

TVV · 9th May 2008, 04:36 PM

Great points by Ariel.
Stephen, I believe Bosnia is a very good guess regarding your yataghan, as generally, Bosnian yataghans have big ears of walrus ivory. But it could also be from Croatia or Serbia, or Montenegro. There are plenty of yataghans with walrus scales that surface in Bulgaria as well, although one predominantly sees yataghans with dark horn scales (cow and buffalo, but I have seen rhino as well, although it is rare).
To add to the list of books, there is also a German catalogue from 1976 "JATAGANE Aus Dem Historischen Museum Von Kroatien in Zagreb". It has a little foreword with mostly general information and then there are a douzen or so examples in black and white. As most publications on the subject, there is a great deal of attention devoted to inscriptions and their meaning. And those inscriptions, unfortunately, never contain any towns or village names

.
Regards,
Teodor

Nagawarrior · 10th May 2008, 12:31 AM

Thank you Ariel and Theodor. Very valuable and interesting information. I'll keep my eyes pealed for the reading matter you suggest. Building ones library is important. Sometimes its hard to choose between a new piece or a new book when funds are sparse. I posted close ups of the blade and inscription in a post a while back. I'll try to insert a link, if I can figure it out. I doubt it will help much with pinpointing origin definitively.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3242

9th May 2008, 01:57 AM	#1
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Yataghan, Balkan? Is this a Balkan Yataghan? How Does one differentiate between regions? I've read through Tirri's book and it offers little specifics. It does indicate the prolific use of Yataghan in the Balkan region and that the "ears" are of larger size. Thanks. Stephen

9th May 2008, 02:38 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,614	Balkan indeed. When it comes to differentiating between yataghans from dofferent regions, it is similar to keris - you watch for details such as the size of ears, the decoration on the bolster and the band around the hilt, different techniques, such as repousse, gilting and niello, etc. I do not think there is a deffinitive reference, although Astvatsaturian's book on Turkish Arms is very helpful. And since it is hard to explain, it can be really frustrating - for me it is frustrating when it comes to qamas - I can distinguish the Balkan and to a degree the Turkish and Persian ones, but the ones from the Caucasus are still a mystery to me to a large degree. Very nice yataghan by the way, congratulations! Very nice dark patina on the walruss scales.

9th May 2008, 03:55 AM	#3
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Thanks Theodor. Good news. I find the region very interesting and must study more of the history. Can you further pinpoint a specific region within the Balkans, such as Bosnia/Herzegovina? I'm particularly interested in this region. Stephen

9th May 2008, 04:52 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Most Balkan yataghans come from the Ottoman -controlled areas: Bosnia, Serbia, Greece and Bulgaria. Indeen it is difficult to distinguish between them, with the exception of longish and round-eared Greek ones, Sarajevo production ( " radioactive sign") and Bulgarian karakulaks ( which were in fact not weapons as such but rather herder knives, although on occasion.... ). There are several good books:"Zbirka Yatagana" by Dora Boskovic ( Croatian Zagreb Museum collection) and , less so, " Weaponry of the past" by Nikola Daskalov and Vyara Kovacheva ( Bulgarian collections). From Serbia/Bosnia yataghans moved to Croatia and even Italy, but rarely did they become popular there: the Great Divide between the Orthodox/Catholic schism transformed into the Ottoman/Western European one. And the twain never met

9th May 2008, 04:36 PM	#5
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,614	Great points by Ariel. Stephen, I believe Bosnia is a very good guess regarding your yataghan, as generally, Bosnian yataghans have big ears of walrus ivory. But it could also be from Croatia or Serbia, or Montenegro. There are plenty of yataghans with walrus scales that surface in Bulgaria as well, although one predominantly sees yataghans with dark horn scales (cow and buffalo, but I have seen rhino as well, although it is rare). To add to the list of books, there is also a German catalogue from 1976 "JATAGANE Aus Dem Historischen Museum Von Kroatien in Zagreb". It has a little foreword with mostly general information and then there are a douzen or so examples in black and white. As most publications on the subject, there is a great deal of attention devoted to inscriptions and their meaning. And those inscriptions, unfortunately, never contain any towns or village names . Regards, Teodor

10th May 2008, 12:31 AM	#6
Nagawarrior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA Posts: 160	Thank you Ariel and Theodor. Very valuable and interesting information. I'll keep my eyes pealed for the reading matter you suggest. Building ones library is important. Sometimes its hard to choose between a new piece or a new book when funds are sparse. I posted close ups of the blade and inscription in a post a while back. I'll try to insert a link, if I can figure it out. I doubt it will help much with pinpointing origin definitively. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3242