Strange. Stone club head????

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2008, 05:43 PM

Got this today at a junk market for a couple of quid. Longest dimension approx 22cm, weight 1.3kg. At first glance looks rough and simple but somebody has spent many hours to cut shape and decorate this stone. It looks as if it was attached to something. Why was a pimple carved in the arch, another sign of care in creation? The stone does remind me of some stone used by the Inuit? just a guess. Anybody seen anything like it {vandoo} of course it might be nothing to do with a club. Possibly PNG?

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2008, 06:50 PM

I have been looking at native American ceremonial stone clubs. I am not saying this is but ??????

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2008, 08:30 PM

This stone is very soft. To me after x10 inspection the majority if not all of the shaping and decoration has been made by a pulled cord. I still tend to think of Inuit or there abouts. It could be a fake? This is another item I will have to take to town. Personally I do not think it is a fake but I would say that.

katana · 1st March 2008, 08:40 PM

Tim,
looking at the granular structure of the rock ..it would seem to be a sedimentary type ..like sandstone. I believe a great number of stone headed clubs were of the 'volcanic type...such as granite,quartz and flint etc. much harder and denser.
As sedimentary rock is deposited in layers it tends to have alot of inherent 'faults' which breaks/chips easily. However, if your foe is also limited to sedimentary rock clubs then.....game on

Regards David

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2008, 08:48 PM

If by any chance it is genuine, I will try and sort that out in the coming summer months. I do not think that it was made as an offence weapon. However it is quite fascinating the rare objects one can pick up if you look. ref the Vanuatu knife.

fearn · 2nd March 2008, 03:30 AM

Hi Tim,

If it's soft enough to be cut by a cord, that implies its soapstone, which it looks like. As such, it's not a purpose-built weapon.

Personally, I think it's someone's art project. While I don't profess to be an expert on inuit soapstone, I've certainly never seen anything like this. I have, however, goofed around with carving soapstone, and it's always tempting to create a fake ethnographic piece.

F

Tim Simmons · 2nd March 2008, 10:34 AM

Yes I think it is some sort of fake carving

nice thought while it lasted, was it worth a beer?

fearn · 2nd March 2008, 02:50 PM

Depends on the beer. Westvleteren? Not even. Budweiser? Maybe a can or two.

F

VANDOO · 2nd March 2008, 06:35 PM

A INTERESTING ITEM WORTH A BEER JUST FOR THE CONTEMPATION ,DISCUSSION AND HAVING ONE OF A KIND.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT AND THE USE OF LINES FOR DECORATION IS USED WORLD WIDE IN MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES AND FAIRLY COMMON, SO DOSEN'T HELP. THE SHAPE IS ALSO ODD AND DOSEN'T MATCH UP WITH ANYTHING I HAVE SEEN, IT DOES APPEAR TO BE COMPLEAT AND NOT BROKEN WITH PICES MISSING. FROM THE PICTURES IT DOSEN'T APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN DUG UP (NO ENCRUSTATION OR DETERIATION AND WEATHERING) SO PERHAPS THIS MAY STILL BE USED BY A TRIBE SOMEWHERE OR A REFRENCE OR EXAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE OBJECT MAY BE IN A MUSEUM.
I WOULD GUESS IT TO BE USED IN A CEREMONIAL MANNER OR AS A DECORATIVE SYMBOL OF RANK OR TRIBE NOT AS ANY SORT OF WEAPON. I IMAGINE IT AS A PART PF A OBJECT HANGING ON A WALL OR POLE OR SOMETHING AS PART OF SOME OBJECT OR DISPLAY MADE UP OF VARIOUS MATERIALS, WOOD ,CORD, FUR,SHELLS BONES ECT.
JUST MY IMAGINATION AND GUT FEELING BUT PERHAPS YOU OR ANOTHER MEMBER WILL RUN ACROSS SOMETHING SIMULAR IN FUTURE AND PIN IT DOWN FOR US. GOOD LUCK

Tim Simmons · 2nd March 2008, 08:23 PM

Thank you Barry, your name is Barry? It can be hard to be positive and confident about objects like this as they are often quite rare and misunderstood, all the more so as they lack any immediate appeal. This picture of a steatite or in other words soapstone bowl is rather interesting. I believe many of the native cultures relating to the picture were materially exceedingly poor like Aus aboriginals. It is also very interesting the incised lines in the stone. I might well go to town in the summer.

fearn · 2nd March 2008, 08:36 PM

Hi Tim,

I'm currently living on the West Coast, near a former steatite quarry where the local tribe made bowls. Said bowls are very simple, but they were also traded for hundreds of miles. Steatite (aka soapstone), soft as it is, is a very good material for cooking pots because it evenly radiates heat, doesn't explode when heated, and is easy to carve with all sorts of tools.

That said, I'd rule out California Indians as a source for your artifact. It doesn't look like the steatite work of any tribe I know of. That doesn't help much, as soapstone is found (and carved) all over the world. I'm still sticking with my first guess: someone's art project. Six-pack of Bud on that.

F

1st March 2008, 05:43 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Strange. Stone club head???? Got this today at a junk market for a couple of quid. Longest dimension approx 22cm, weight 1.3kg. At first glance looks rough and simple but somebody has spent many hours to cut shape and decorate this stone. It looks as if it was attached to something. Why was a pimple carved in the arch, another sign of care in creation? The stone does remind me of some stone used by the Inuit? just a guess. Anybody seen anything like it {vandoo} of course it might be nothing to do with a club. Possibly PNG?

2nd March 2008, 08:23 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	On the other hand Thank you Barry, your name is Barry? It can be hard to be positive and confident about objects like this as they are often quite rare and misunderstood, all the more so as they lack any immediate appeal. This picture of a steatite or in other words soapstone bowl is rather interesting. I believe many of the native cultures relating to the picture were materially exceedingly poor like Aus aboriginals. It is also very interesting the incised lines in the stone. I might well go to town in the summer. Attached Images

1st March 2008, 06:50 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	I have been looking at native American ceremonial stone clubs. I am not saying this is but ??????

1st March 2008, 08:30 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	This stone is very soft. To me after x10 inspection the majority if not all of the shaping and decoration has been made by a pulled cord. I still tend to think of Inuit or there abouts. It could be a fake? This is another item I will have to take to town. Personally I do not think it is a fake but I would say that.

1st March 2008, 08:40 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Tim, looking at the granular structure of the rock ..it would seem to be a sedimentary type ..like sandstone. I believe a great number of stone headed clubs were of the 'volcanic type...such as granite,quartz and flint etc. much harder and denser. As sedimentary rock is deposited in layers it tends to have alot of inherent 'faults' which breaks/chips easily. However, if your foe is also limited to sedimentary rock clubs then.....game on Regards David

1st March 2008, 08:48 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	If by any chance it is genuine, I will try and sort that out in the coming summer months. I do not think that it was made as an offence weapon. However it is quite fascinating the rare objects one can pick up if you look. ref the Vanuatu knife.

2nd March 2008, 03:30 AM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, If it's soft enough to be cut by a cord, that implies its soapstone, which it looks like. As such, it's not a purpose-built weapon. Personally, I think it's someone's art project. While I don't profess to be an expert on inuit soapstone, I've certainly never seen anything like this. I have, however, goofed around with carving soapstone, and it's always tempting to create a fake ethnographic piece. F

2nd March 2008, 10:34 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,806	Yes I think it is some sort of fake carving nice thought while it lasted, was it worth a beer?

2nd March 2008, 02:50 PM	#8
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Depends on the beer. Westvleteren? Not even. Budweiser? Maybe a can or two. F

2nd March 2008, 06:35 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A INTERESTING ITEM WORTH A BEER JUST FOR THE CONTEMPATION ,DISCUSSION AND HAVING ONE OF A KIND. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT AND THE USE OF LINES FOR DECORATION IS USED WORLD WIDE IN MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES AND FAIRLY COMMON, SO DOSEN'T HELP. THE SHAPE IS ALSO ODD AND DOSEN'T MATCH UP WITH ANYTHING I HAVE SEEN, IT DOES APPEAR TO BE COMPLEAT AND NOT BROKEN WITH PICES MISSING. FROM THE PICTURES IT DOSEN'T APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN DUG UP (NO ENCRUSTATION OR DETERIATION AND WEATHERING) SO PERHAPS THIS MAY STILL BE USED BY A TRIBE SOMEWHERE OR A REFRENCE OR EXAMPLE OF THE ENTIRE OBJECT MAY BE IN A MUSEUM. I WOULD GUESS IT TO BE USED IN A CEREMONIAL MANNER OR AS A DECORATIVE SYMBOL OF RANK OR TRIBE NOT AS ANY SORT OF WEAPON. I IMAGINE IT AS A PART PF A OBJECT HANGING ON A WALL OR POLE OR SOMETHING AS PART OF SOME OBJECT OR DISPLAY MADE UP OF VARIOUS MATERIALS, WOOD ,CORD, FUR,SHELLS BONES ECT. JUST MY IMAGINATION AND GUT FEELING BUT PERHAPS YOU OR ANOTHER MEMBER WILL RUN ACROSS SOMETHING SIMULAR IN FUTURE AND PIN IT DOWN FOR US. GOOD LUCK

2nd March 2008, 08:36 PM	#11
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, I'm currently living on the West Coast, near a former steatite quarry where the local tribe made bowls. Said bowls are very simple, but they were also traded for hundreds of miles. Steatite (aka soapstone), soft as it is, is a very good material for cooking pots because it evenly radiates heat, doesn't explode when heated, and is easy to carve with all sorts of tools. That said, I'd rule out California Indians as a source for your artifact. It doesn't look like the steatite work of any tribe I know of. That doesn't help much, as soapstone is found (and carved) all over the world. I'm still sticking with my first guess: someone's art project. Six-pack of Bud on that. F