Polish saber a gem or im robed

[serdar]

I aquired polish saber that looks amazing, i payed sh*** load of money for it, so polish experts (be thrutful i can take it, but please no guessing or “i think”,if and only if you are 1000% sure or know similar, if it is a very very good and expensively made fake)
Guy offerde it to me from a guy who has big and extraordinary collection of swords and sabers, i bought two more one persian and one ottoman, for which im 1000% sure they are genuine and extraordinary examples, so i was in no doubt on this one, it seems to me it belonged to Polish royalty, becouse of cross and becouse of gold and silver work, and quality overall, (tested it and it is real gold and silver, i checked scabbard with endoscope and it is as it is suposed to be, no paint or darkening work around mouth like on fake stuff, but whole length is as it should be.

Few “experts” and life long sirious collectors checked it and said it is real, and amazing.

So if there are experts here on polish sabers, please do help (but please only if you are sure, with explanation why and becouse of what).

Thank you, Serdar.
(P.s. I apologise in advance for my bad grammar and speling, and if i uploaded too much photos).

[serdar]

P2

[serdar]

P3

[serdar]

It is sharpened only on first third of the blade, very sharp, and gradualy thickens.
It was carryed there is worn metal on rign holders, (i dont know how good it will be posible to see from photos.

[serdar]

Thank you but i determined i was deceived and robed, it is fake, sold by german antique weapons dealer active online, on facebook and in store who boost him self with 100 year experience, i wont name names, but it is a fraud and crime.

It was sold to me as original polish saber for great sum of money, without any mentioning of a year, or kostume saber, which he mentioned when i colided him with evidence of forgery.

So be careful when you buy expensive rare swords in great condition from established antique dealers, germany or where ever.

[Lee]

I suspect, from the lack of member responses, that your fears may be correct. I am not experienced at all with swords from this region, so consider my comments with great caution. The steel blade proper does appear to have some age, but the applied decorations on the blade and mounts may, indeed, be 'too good to be true' and more recent. Though of a different style and time, I am reminded of the 'enhancement' sometimes seen in forgeries of Viking Age swords that originate in eastern Europe.

Dealers do sometimes make mistakes without fraudulent intent, so the true test is whether a dealer values his reputation over the profits from a sale and offers a refund. If it is any consolation, I suspect any of us here who have amassed a collection of any significant size will have made mistakes along the way - I certainly have!

[Jim McDougall]

In total accord with what Lee says, Ive sure made my share of misTEAKES !!
As you said earlier Serdar, it is in essence TUITION.

It seems that the practice of 'enhancing' old blades is one of the most common ploys used by charlatans that have long been around. The 'industry' of these kinds of fakes has been extant in Poland and some of these East European countries for decades. These swords are quite rare so it is understandable that copies made would be lucrative.

The inscriptions and inlay work can be seen in many of the esoteric books on these swords, but the application seems far too heavily added.

[serdar]

I examined it under magnifier, it seems bordure on throath of scabbard is constructed using tiny pins thru holes made in metal strips, who ever made it it realy had a lot of work to do it,
It is imposible to see with naked eye.

[serdar]

Cap is glued with epoxy, new wood, ray skin burned to imitate age, and so on.
German reputable antique arms dealer/scamer and fraud dealer.

If someone wants to know his name, name of shop i bought from i can write it here or in pm.
( just to know what to avoid)

[awdaniec666]

I think the lesson for beginners here is that even with a lot of money and confidence, you can't replace knowledge. If this is combined with arrogance and a demanding demeanour, you might as well put your money into American shares.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by awdaniec666

I think the lesson for beginners here is that even with a lot of money and confidence, you can't replace knowledge. If this is combined with arrogance and a demanding demeanour, you might as well put your money into American shares.

You realy dont need to be such an *****, and bliss with happines that i lost money, becouse i hurt your ego before, that karabela where you obviously got offended, was a genuine italian blade, mounted in karabela hilt in 18 century.

So how much may hurt you and your glorious and wast knowledge of karabela swords, that is a genuine karabela saber.

Regarding this saber, 5 experts from two history museum proclaimed it real, but my feeling wasnt right with it, so that is a reason i destroyed very expensive sword to proove it is a fake, and i find out it is a fake.

Im not arogant, only with stupid people, who claim to know a lot, but write whole bible on a subject of karabela, but miss everything on it, so dont hold a grudge on me becouse i was right, and offended your ego.

And to pour some water on your glorifying ego who i see is very happy that i lost a huge sum of money, it is a pocket change to me, and awdaniec im not beginer in any sense, i collect antique weapons and religious objects over 25 years, my father collected, his father, all from ancestors from royalty from my original country, polish and european is not my strong side and i said that,( it is not a shame to tell that you dont know, nobody knows everything), as a mater it is my very week side, from 460 swords and sabers i collected in 25 years, and 230 from my ancestors, polish hussar and karabela i got 5 pieces, my ancestors 23, so dont be a judge becouse i made mistake, im learning as we all are, coce covek budi, cao.

[awdaniec666]

Originally Posted by serdar

You realy dont need to be such an *****, and bliss with happines that i lost money, becouse i hurt your ego before, that karabela where you obviously got offended, was a genuine italian blade, mounted in karabela hilt in 18 century.

So how much may hurt you and your glorious and wast knowledge of karabela swords, that is a genuine karabela saber.

Regarding this saber, 5 experts from two history museum proclaimed it real, but my feeling wasnt right with it, so that is a reason i destroyed very expensive sword to proove it is a fake, and i find out it is a fake.

Im not arogant, only with stupid people, who claim to know a lot, but write whole bible on a subject of karabela, but miss everything on it, so dont hold a grudge on me becouse i was right, and offended your ego.

And to pour some water on your glorifying ego who i see is very happy that i lost a huge sum of money, it is a pocket change to me, and awdaniec im not beginer in any sense, i collect antique weapons and religious objects over 25 years, my father collected, his father, all from ancestors from royalty from my original country, polish and european is not my strong side and i said that,( it is not a shame to tell that you dont know, nobody knows everything), as a mater it is my very week side, from 460 swords and sabers i collected in 25 years, and 230 from my ancestors, polish hussar and karabela i got 5 pieces, my ancestors 23, so dont be a judge becouse i made mistake, im learning as we all are, coce covek budi, cao.

You are and will be out of the discussion here and in coming posts for me, because all you can do is to buy stuff - you are not capable of doing more at this moment and therefore I will not discuss anything with you any more.

I wrote my reply on this post to conclude the mistakes made here for coming generations of collectors. I quoted your weird stuff above just as a memento of possible human characters linked to spending money without knowledge.

This is a forum and not your personal advice centre with stroking sessions. Accept that not everyone likes your overpriced toys and won´t stay silent.

[serdar]

Originally Posted by awdaniec666

You are and will be out of the discussion here and in coming posts for me, because all you can do is to buy stuff - you are not capable of doing more at this moment and therefore I will not discuss anything with you any more.

I wrote my reply on this post to conclude the mistakes made here for coming generations of collectors. I quoted your weird stuff above just as a memento of possible human characters linked to spending money without knowledge.

This is a forum and not your personal advice centre with stroking sessions. Accept that not everyone likes your overpriced toys and won´t stay silent.

Awdaniec
You sir either need to grow up and come out of your mom's basement, or?
Did i ask you to coment?
My expensive overpriced toys?
Awdaniec what are you doing on antique weapons forum?? Offcourse antique sword are expensive? And they are toys for you?
You sir with all my respect for you have a big problems, mine is not to determine what, but yours is.

And is that wrong if i asked people to coment only if they know particular item and subject? I tried to tighten search and not write bible of unnecesary coments, on the end i asked for help, like im always ready to help anyone with anything, is it wrong to ask for specific help?
But you try to input me that im arogant and i demand!? Who am i to demand? Where did i demand, i ASKED for specific information, i didnt know that that is forbiden...

But you from start put your self as a karabela expert and karabela god, and got offended for nothing, lets not forget that on that post you wrote im quoteing you "thats it for me im not writing anything anymore" and here you are, comenting aldo you said you wont, celebrating my mistake, writeing and focusing on the money aspect, ask your self why?

(I was harsh only on one person on that karabela post and that was jim mcdugall (sorry if i misspeled name), i was harsh with my writing on him, and if he cares im apologizing him for that, he didnt deserve that harsh writing)

And please, let this be, if you want, it is no problem ignore my posts, any how i didnt ask you for nothing, neither i will after this, but let as dont downgrade this forum by our writings, there are nice posts here, and lots of information, let as not poison that.

[Lee]

I think that the time has come that moderatorial duty requires that I close this thread.

Obviously, the more knowledge an aspiring collector has about their chosen field, the better. The more unquestionably genuine swords of a type that one has seen up close, the better they will become at separating the wheat from the chaff - and it does not hurt to have also seen and handled known fakes. I had the benefit of being along for most of the museum research trips involved in the research for Swords of the Viking Age. That gave me a large mental database and a healthy degree of suspicion, but often, as I proceeded with collecting, there were offerings that I could never be sure of. If I was 'afraid of something,' I would avoid it, even at the risk of missing a particularly important example. Even so, denouncing most of what I increasingly found in the market, I have made tens of thousands of dollars in mistakes buying fakes over some forty years. As has been said, 'tuition."

There have always been collectors much more financially well off than myself. In one failed attempt at an Alexandria Arsenal marked sword at Christie's, I 'ran the successful bidder up' the price of a minivan - a significant amount for me, driving a 7 year old machine at the time. The successful bidder - a collector of seriously good taste and monumental importance across several fields - was revealed years later. The price of a minivan would have been, to him, about as perceptible as would be a drop of mist falling on my wrist.

I did succeed on another Alexandria Arsenal marked sword several years later. The day after the auction my agent called relating that he had been called by the auction house with an offer of serious profit. Someone intending to bid seriously had mismarked his calendar. My lucky day? Karma?