Old or vintage Moro kris? Which Moro group?

Sajen · 9th May 2022, 11:56 PM

I have acquired this later Moro Kris since I always wanted such a kris with a scabbard and hilt with these MOP plates and this in a better execusion and especially complete without missing plates. Have found it!

But I have several questions!

Age guess? Second World War or short after? Sulu? And why is the show side different from antique examples, a question I have already long but never asked for!

ariel · 10th May 2022, 12:50 AM

Not being a Moro aficionado, I nevertheless put my 1 ( not even 5!) cents.
IMHO, it is quite new: the ganja is not separate, its contour is just made look like one with a couple of pretty crude incisions. Also, it would be tough to imagine that a 60+ year old working example managed to keep both mother-of pearl and rattan binding so intact.
I vote for the "Cold War I" period at the earliest.

CharlesS · 10th May 2022, 04:08 PM

I have to agree with Ariel. The ganja appears chiseled rather than authentic. I’d say it is mid 20th century Tausug.

Sajen · 10th May 2022, 07:25 PM

Hello Ariel and Charles,
Thank you both for your comments!
Yes, the ganja isn't separate, this is clearly visible but not separate ganjas I've seen by examples from around the second quarter of the 20th century.
My own age guess was post WWII until the 70s last century which would mean that it is a vintage piece and I am happy with this age guess.
Like said before, long already I look for a complete example with these MOP plates at the scabbard and handle. Who have watched the market will know how seldom a complete example appears.
Of course it would have been nice to have an older blade refitted in such a dress but it's ok for me as specimen copy.

And the price was right.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 10th May 2022, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I’d say it is mid 20th century Tausug.

Hello Charles,

By private mail someone guessed that it's Sama because of the workmanship.
And again, I am fine with mid 20th century vintage.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen · 10th May 2022, 07:39 PM

Is someone able to explain why the show side by later examples is different from antique examples?

Battara · 11th May 2022, 12:11 AM

I have seen these made in the 1960s and from Jolo (even though the front of the ganga could look Maguindanao).

What makes it look newer?:

1. the type of hilt wrap used
2. MOP was used starting in the 1910s and use of it for scabbards like this in WW2 and later.
3. The scabbard wranga is a later style.
4. the way the "horse hoof" style on the pommel is made is a later form from that in the 1900s.
5. The lack of a separate ganga.
6. The style of the ganga is more modern.
7. Cloth used on the scabbard is modern.

Just a few things to note. I'm sure others can add more.

Sajen · 11th May 2022, 03:25 PM

Thank you very much Jose!

Regards,
Detlef

9th May 2022, 11:56 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Old or vintage Moro kris? Which Moro group? I have acquired this later Moro Kris since I always wanted such a kris with a scabbard and hilt with these MOP plates and this in a better execusion and especially complete without missing plates. Have found it! But I have several questions! Age guess? Second World War or short after? Sulu? And why is the show side different from antique examples, a question I have already long but never asked for! Attached Images

10th May 2022, 07:39 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Is someone able to explain why the show side by later examples is different from antique examples? Attached Images

10th May 2022, 12:50 AM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Not being a Moro aficionado, I nevertheless put my 1 ( not even 5!) cents. IMHO, it is quite new: the ganja is not separate, its contour is just made look like one with a couple of pretty crude incisions. Also, it would be tough to imagine that a 60+ year old working example managed to keep both mother-of pearl and rattan binding so intact. I vote for the "Cold War I" period at the earliest.

10th May 2022, 04:08 PM	#3
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	I have to agree with Ariel. The ganja appears chiseled rather than authentic. I’d say it is mid 20th century Tausug.

10th May 2022, 07:25 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Hello Ariel and Charles, Thank you both for your comments! Yes, the ganja isn't separate, this is clearly visible but not separate ganjas I've seen by examples from around the second quarter of the 20th century. My own age guess was post WWII until the 70s last century which would mean that it is a vintage piece and I am happy with this age guess. Like said before, long already I look for a complete example with these MOP plates at the scabbard and handle. Who have watched the market will know how seldom a complete example appears. Of course it would have been nice to have an older blade refitted in such a dress but it's ok for me as specimen copy. And the price was right. Regards, Detlef

11th May 2022, 12:11 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,219	I have seen these made in the 1960s and from Jolo (even though the front of the ganga could look Maguindanao). What makes it look newer?: 1. the type of hilt wrap used 2. MOP was used starting in the 1910s and use of it for scabbards like this in WW2 and later. 3. The scabbard wranga is a later style. 4. the way the "horse hoof" style on the pommel is made is a later form from that in the 1900s. 5. The lack of a separate ganga. 6. The style of the ganga is more modern. 7. Cloth used on the scabbard is modern. Just a few things to note. I'm sure others can add more.

11th May 2022, 03:25 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,761	Thank you very much Jose! Regards, Detlef