French 1845 sabre scabbard serials and paint?

Tuthmose · 5th February 2022, 01:28 PM

I recently acquired a French Infantry Adjudant Sabre, Model 1845 (this particular one made in 1880 at Châtellerault). Other than missing grip wiring and leather washer, which I will replace, it’s in nice shape. I do, however, had questions about the scabbard. I’ve attached some pictures below; the kitchen-table on is mine, the rest pieced together from the seller’s images.

The sabre’s serials do match the period of manufacture, but its matching-serial scabbard is a single-ring model, after 1887, so that can’t be original to the blade. I’m guessing it must be a later armory-issued replacement? Or is it more likely to have been shenanigans on the part of a later seller to increase value by stamping a matching mark on a spare they had lying around? Did government-issue replacements get marked to match the sword like that?

The scabbard is painted black; the paint well-worn and old. I was considering removing the paint and re-polishing the metal. I only want to do this, however, if that paint was put on by a later collector. If the paint dates from the sword’s period of service, I’ll leave it. Do any of you experts know of any reason that the scabbard would have been painted in service? I know many of these 1845/55 blades were re-issued in World War One. Could it have been painted then, by a soldier who didn’t wish to be “shiny” in trench warfare? Or is it likely just a later collector doing something ill-advised? By a seller wishing to hide a mismatched piece?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts and opinions.
-Ron

Will M · 5th February 2022, 08:08 PM

Old style stamped numbers on the scabbard. I would say the numbers and paint both applied within the swords working life.

fernando · 6th February 2022, 12:17 PM

The paint looks like a professional job, with a solid texture, no collector trick. I would leave it as it is, as you will achieve no better solution by meddling with it.

Tuthmose · 6th February 2022, 02:11 PM

Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and thoughts. I shall leave it as it is. I do wish these old swords could talk; the stories they could tell!

corrado26 · 6th February 2022, 02:41 PM

This is the latest variation of this model with iron scabbard and just one ring.

5th February 2022, 01:28 PM	#1
Tuthmose Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 13	French 1845 sabre scabbard serials and paint? I recently acquired a French Infantry Adjudant Sabre, Model 1845 (this particular one made in 1880 at Châtellerault). Other than missing grip wiring and leather washer, which I will replace, it’s in nice shape. I do, however, had questions about the scabbard. I’ve attached some pictures below; the kitchen-table on is mine, the rest pieced together from the seller’s images. The sabre’s serials do match the period of manufacture, but its matching-serial scabbard is a single-ring model, after 1887, so that can’t be original to the blade. I’m guessing it must be a later armory-issued replacement? Or is it more likely to have been shenanigans on the part of a later seller to increase value by stamping a matching mark on a spare they had lying around? Did government-issue replacements get marked to match the sword like that? The scabbard is painted black; the paint well-worn and old. I was considering removing the paint and re-polishing the metal. I only want to do this, however, if that paint was put on by a later collector. If the paint dates from the sword’s period of service, I’ll leave it. Do any of you experts know of any reason that the scabbard would have been painted in service? I know many of these 1845/55 blades were re-issued in World War One. Could it have been painted then, by a soldier who didn’t wish to be “shiny” in trench warfare? Or is it likely just a later collector doing something ill-advised? By a seller wishing to hide a mismatched piece? I'd be grateful for any thoughts and opinions. -Ron Attached Images

6th February 2022, 12:17 PM	#3
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Opinion ... nothing else The paint looks like a professional job, with a solid texture, no collector trick. I would leave it as it is, as you will achieve no better solution by meddling with it.

6th February 2022, 02:41 PM	#5
corrado26 Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Black Forest, Germany Posts: 1,192	This is the latest variation of this model with iron scabbard and just one ring. Attached Images

5th February 2022, 08:08 PM	#2
Will M Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: In the wee woods north of Napanee Ontario Posts: 391	Old style stamped numbers on the scabbard. I would say the numbers and paint both applied within the swords working life.

6th February 2022, 02:11 PM	#4
Tuthmose Member Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 13	Thank you both for sharing your knowledge and thoughts. I shall leave it as it is. I do wish these old swords could talk; the stories they could tell!