Mystery and very interesting keris hilt

[Sajen]

Hello All,

I want to show you a IMHO very interesting keris hilt. This hilt have a lot of different styles in a very simple carving. You can see stylized the raksasa figure from Java but on the other hand the bugis kerdas form as well. The hilt have also a stylized tumpal crown. I am very very unsure from where this hilt may originate, it may be from Java, Sumatra don't would be a surprise and Bugis is possible as well. Sumbawa? I just don't know. Maybe someone have seen a similar hilt and know more.

Best regards,

Detlef

[David]

Frankly Detlef, i don't get the impression that this is all that old. The carved out areas look far to light and fresh for there to be any reasonable amount of age here. You see a lot of contemporary hilts on ePrey these days that are obviously modern designs that while sometimes based in tradition forms are really more of a free expression of the artist/carver. I'm not convinced that trying to nail this hilt down to a particular origin is likely to lead us to any conclusive answers.

[A. G. Maisey]

Based upon what I can see in the photos, I would accept without question that this hilt does have good age.

At the moment I am unable to offer a suggestion of origin.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Based upon what I can see in the photos, I would accept without question that this hilt does have good age.

At the moment I am unable to offer a suggestion of origin.

Really Alan? The carved out areas look way to light and fresh cut to my eyes.

[David]

Could this be an older hilt that for some reason was more recently "enhanced" with carvings?

[Rick]

Remnants of Lime rubbing ??

[PenangsangII]

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton.... but my last dollar is to Selayar provenance.

Selayar is known to its hybrid ukiran/hulu/pangulu - across between Celebes and Java...bird hulu with nunggak semi style.....

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

Frankly Detlef, i don't get the impression that this is all that old. The carved out areas look far to light and fresh for there to be any reasonable amount of age here. You see a lot of contemporary hilts on ePrey these days that are obviously modern designs that while sometimes based in tradition forms are really more of a free expression of the artist/carver. I'm not convinced that trying to nail this hilt down to a particular origin is likely to lead us to any conclusive answers.

Hello David,

I've got this hilt 1994 in Indonesia with a thick coat of dirt patination and the carvings wasn't visible. When you are able to hold this hilt in your hands you would agree that it is an old hilt. I don't know if it is an antique hilt but for sure with a good age.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Remnants of Lime rubbing ??

Hi Rick,

no lime rubbing. The carved out areas look so white from flash light.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton.... but my last dollar is to Selayar provenance.

Selayar is known to its hybrid ukiran/hulu/pangulu - across between Celebes and Java...bird hulu with nunggak semi style.....

Hello Penangsang,

very interesting hint! Do you can show any examples?

Regards,

Detlef

[kai]

I would opine the hilt came from Selayar island or Buton....

Interesting suggestion - could you please post any pics of resembling hilts? TIA!

I'm with Alan that the hilt does have some age - maybe not antique but around WW2 or possibly first half of 20th c. sounds good to me.

The carving is pretty rough. I guess this is a village/DIY example which will be very tough to place unless we find a provenanced example with similar features: especially the rounded/curved gestalt seems noteworthy. Then again, this might just have been a shortcut...

Regards,
Kai

[A. G. Maisey]

David, I'm reading that light area as greyish wood caused by age and dirt. I feel that if this was brushed lightly and repeatedly with baby oil, with good hot-hand rubbings in between you'd have something that looked a lot different.

The carving is fairly crude, I'd guess somebody's work for himself.

As to age, I would not place it in the post WWII period. Wood that has not been subjected to sunlight can be very, very deceptive.

[Jean]

I would agree that this seems to be a village piece and probably about 50 years old (the peksi hole shows signs of wear and possibly repair). I have no clear idea about its origin but noticed an interesting detail: at the base of the right side (left on the picture), just above the tumpal motif, I can see a stylized leg, while on the other side it looks like a reversed curled foot or fish tail; this is similar to the decoration of the putrasatu hilts from East Java/ Madura (see typical specimen) so the hilt from Sajen may originate from this region. As an additional indication it would also be useful to know where it was found .

[Marcokeris]

IMHO from Sumbawa ... and not so old

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, I'm reading that light area as greyish wood caused by age and dirt. I feel that if this was brushed lightly and repeatedly with baby oil, with good hot-hand rubbings in between you'd have something that looked a lot different.
As to age, I would not place it in the post WWII period. Wood that has not been subjected to sunlight can be very, very deceptive.

You meet the point! The hilt have had a thick dirt patination, when I received it the carving was not visible. The hilt get a cleaning and a brush with a wood oil. The hilt is placed inside a cabinet but with the years the carved out areas get this colour. It is out of question, this hilt have a good age, maybe not antique but old.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

I would agree that this seems to be a village piece and probably about 50 years old (the peksi hole shows signs of wear and possibly repair). I have no clear idea about its origin but noticed an interesting detail: at the base of the right side (left on the picture), just above the tumpal motif, I can see a stylized leg, while on the other side it looks like a reversed curled foot or fish tail; this is similar to the decoration of the putrasatu hilts from East Java/ Madura (see typical specimen) so the hilt from Sajen may originate from this region. As an additional indication it would also be useful to know where it was found .

Very good observation Jean! So I write in post #1 that you can see a stylized raksasa figure in it. BTW, I have had this hilt long time on a small Madura keris and it looked good.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

IMHO from Sumbawa ... and not so old

Hello Marco,

good possible! Now we have Selayar, Madura and Sumbawa! As for the age: I have seen this hilt when I received it, be sure it have a good age.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Here some additional pictures from the fresh oiled hilt. Special at the third picture is the black patination at the throat good visible. A patination like this you don't get in a few years.