Shashka: wootz???

ariel · 12th September 2009, 01:16 AM

Folks, I need your help, especially the "metallurgists"
I have a shashka ( no scabbard). The blade is of obviously "European" pattern, but very light and very "bendable" ( returns to true like a lightning). It has no markings.
What is interesting here is the blade , and I cannot decide, is it a Sham-type wootz ( bulat) or mechanical damascus.
If it is wootz, it would most likely be of Anosov's-era Zlatoust production, a rarity. If mechanical, could anybody suggest the source of such a pattern. Obviously, it is no superficial etching; the pattern is seen thru the blade, spine included.
Will be most grateful for opinions.

Atlantia · 12th September 2009, 02:03 AM

Hmm, reminds me of my Bowie knife...
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8292

ariel · 12th September 2009, 02:47 AM

Yes, indeed. quite reminiscent.
I spoke with Russian collectors: all told me that Anosov's "bulat" was a very, very coarse wootz.
That is why I am so confused: will the "very, very coarse" wootz look like that?

kisak · 12th September 2009, 02:57 AM

Reminds me of this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8118

Gavin Nugent · 12th September 2009, 03:07 AM

Ariel,

I did notice some time back a Karabela hilted Shamshir that had the exact same pattern through the blade...so at a guess I'd say your on the money with this one, incidentally it sold for huge bucks.

Gav

TVV · 12th September 2009, 03:58 AM

I am not a metallurgist - actually quite the opposite, but I vote - sham wootz. This is probably mostly due to wishful thinking on my part, as I have a kindjal with a similar pattern visible throughout the blade - pictures attached.
Regards,
Teodor

Lew · 12th September 2009, 04:34 AM

My vote is sham wootz also

Jeff Pringle · 12th September 2009, 04:32 PM

Nice blades!
Could be shear steel, the 'other' pre-Bessemer way to make steel from iron.
Here is a pic of a lightly etched wood chisel made of shear steel, the laminations can be coase or fine depending on the amount of processing. It can look almost exactly like sham wootz

12th September 2009, 01:16 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Shashka: wootz??? Folks, I need your help, especially the "metallurgists" I have a shashka ( no scabbard). The blade is of obviously "European" pattern, but very light and very "bendable" ( returns to true like a lightning). It has no markings. What is interesting here is the blade , and I cannot decide, is it a Sham-type wootz ( bulat) or mechanical damascus. If it is wootz, it would most likely be of Anosov's-era Zlatoust production, a rarity. If mechanical, could anybody suggest the source of such a pattern. Obviously, it is no superficial etching; the pattern is seen thru the blade, spine included. Will be most grateful for opinions. Attached Images

12th September 2009, 03:07 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Interesting Ariel, I did notice some time back a Karabela hilted Shamshir that had the exact same pattern through the blade...so at a guess I'd say your on the money with this one, incidentally it sold for huge bucks. Gav

12th September 2009, 03:58 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,624	I am not a metallurgist - actually quite the opposite, but I vote - sham wootz. This is probably mostly due to wishful thinking on my part, as I have a kindjal with a similar pattern visible throughout the blade - pictures attached. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

12th September 2009, 04:32 PM	#8
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Nice blades! Could be shear steel, the 'other' pre-Bessemer way to make steel from iron. Here is a pic of a lightly etched wood chisel made of shear steel, the laminations can be coase or fine depending on the amount of processing. It can look almost exactly like sham wootz Attached Images

12th September 2009, 02:03 AM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hmm, reminds me of my Bowie knife... http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8292

12th September 2009, 02:47 AM	#3
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Yes, indeed. quite reminiscent. I spoke with Russian collectors: all told me that Anosov's "bulat" was a very, very coarse wootz. That is why I am so confused: will the "very, very coarse" wootz look like that?

12th September 2009, 02:57 AM	#4
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	Reminds me of this one: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8118

12th September 2009, 04:34 AM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	My vote is sham wootz also