A Dagger Hafted Lance Whatzit Day

Hotspur · 3rd July 2009, 07:56 PM

I had picked this up from Rob Miller of LionGate some years ago. In some ways, this be considered an early example of old stuff I was looking to accumulate. His thoughts had been (with a grain or two of salt) that the carving and gold work could be Japanese.

I had run this up the falgpole a few times and at an annual show, always a whatzit or something Pacific rim. Seven out of ten see a dragon immediately but I always have to look really hard myself. It is a bit like those trick prints some can make sense of.

Anyway, an old laminated blade that has eveidence of serious grinding some time in the past of its history. The pommel leaf work are individual on wires and bundled together. I have never been able to offer great pictures of the bone carving. I had taken this in to the Higgins last year for evaluation and Jeff Forgeng poked about a bit but came up uncertain except for the mention of agreeing it was probably Pacific rim or islander and petty late carving work. It does somewhat resemble Meji era stuff but the blade itself was never Japanese and the blade almost old Indian or other. (he was much more excited to see a hussar sabre I had brought in). The number of leaves somewhat relates to one of the carvings but that doesn't ad up in number.

Cheers

Hotspur; It seems almost dug and then re-hafted for whatever reason

kronckew · 3rd July 2009, 08:41 PM

spearpoints set into a hilt are an indonesian item as far as i've seen, a search on 'tombak' will provide a lot of info. most have pamor (laminated steel/nickle patterning) when etched in the traditional arsenic based etchant. hilts vary from plain, like mine below to very fancy, as do the spearpoints themselves.

the ivory on yours could do with a better photo as detail is unclear. the pommel gold work does look a bit japanese, tho the spearpoint itself does not to my amateur eyes.japanese stuff is sorta out of my area.

Rick · 4th July 2009, 12:31 AM

A close up shot of the base of the spear might help with it's ID .

Hotspur · 4th July 2009, 01:34 AM

Garrr, I know I am one of the most haphazard at photos of stuff. Here are some more and a few may zoom more cordially than others.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Hotspur; my camera is about the same level of most phones these days

Oh yes, 13 1/4" or 33.5 cm point to butt. Blade 23.5cm or 91/4' haft to point.

Emanuel · 4th July 2009, 02:09 AM

The blade could be a Moro budiak if it's laminated...Philippines, fits with the Pacific/Japanese idea

Jason Anstey · 4th July 2009, 12:58 PM

...here is a link from Dr Stein's site showing Japanese spear (yari) mounted into tanto (knife) this was not too uncommon.

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/unji.htm

cheers

Jason

Rick · 5th July 2009, 01:49 AM

The spear point looks Philippine, (judging from the base and short tang) .

War trophy from the early years decorated at home ?

David · 7th July 2009, 04:11 AM

Also looks like the Philippines to me too. I think Ricks idea makes a lot of sense.

3rd July 2009, 07:56 PM	#1
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	A Dagger Hafted Lance Whatzit Day I had picked this up from Rob Miller of LionGate some years ago. In some ways, this be considered an early example of old stuff I was looking to accumulate. His thoughts had been (with a grain or two of salt) that the carving and gold work could be Japanese. I had run this up the falgpole a few times and at an annual show, always a whatzit or something Pacific rim. Seven out of ten see a dragon immediately but I always have to look really hard myself. It is a bit like those trick prints some can make sense of. Anyway, an old laminated blade that has eveidence of serious grinding some time in the past of its history. The pommel leaf work are individual on wires and bundled together. I have never been able to offer great pictures of the bone carving. I had taken this in to the Higgins last year for evaluation and Jeff Forgeng poked about a bit but came up uncertain except for the mention of agreeing it was probably Pacific rim or islander and petty late carving work. It does somewhat resemble Meji era stuff but the blade itself was never Japanese and the blade almost old Indian or other. (he was much more excited to see a hussar sabre I had brought in). The number of leaves somewhat relates to one of the carvings but that doesn't ad up in number. Cheers Hotspur; It seems almost dug and then re-hafted for whatever reason Attached Images

4th July 2009, 01:34 AM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 498	Garrr, I know I am one of the most haphazard at photos of stuff. Here are some more and a few may zoom more cordially than others. Thanks for the thoughts. Hotspur; my camera is about the same level of most phones these days Oh yes, 13 1/4" or 33.5 cm point to butt. Blade 23.5cm or 91/4' haft to point. Attached Images

3rd July 2009, 08:41 PM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,181	spearpoints set into a hilt are an indonesian item as far as i've seen, a search on 'tombak' will provide a lot of info. most have pamor (laminated steel/nickle patterning) when etched in the traditional arsenic based etchant. hilts vary from plain, like mine below to very fancy, as do the spearpoints themselves. the ivory on yours could do with a better photo as detail is unclear. the pommel gold work does look a bit japanese, tho the spearpoint itself does not to my amateur eyes.japanese stuff is sorta out of my area.

4th July 2009, 12:31 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	A close up shot of the base of the spear might help with it's ID .

4th July 2009, 02:09 AM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	The blade could be a Moro budiak if it's laminated...Philippines, fits with the Pacific/Japanese idea

4th July 2009, 12:58 PM	#6
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	...here is a link from Dr Stein's site showing Japanese spear (yari) mounted into tanto (knife) this was not too uncommon. http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/unji.htm cheers Jason

5th July 2009, 01:49 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,291	The spear point looks Philippine, (judging from the base and short tang) . War trophy from the early years decorated at home ?

7th July 2009, 04:11 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,120	Also looks like the Philippines to me too. I think Ricks idea makes a lot of sense.