gorgrian Khevsur "shashka"

ausjulius · 14th June 2021, 04:04 PM

well i dont recall these georgian khevsur swords being discussed on here but i find them curious, like yatagan meets shashka.

here is an article on these odd swords
unfortunately only in russian..
https://docplayer.ru/46695176-Zapadn...ruzhiya-1.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXuZC63VWJg&t=502s

i find these swords so odd , im very curious how they handle.

Saracen · 14th June 2021, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausjulius

unfortunately only in russian..

You can download this work of Vakhtang Kiziria and Irakly Bakradze in English by the link here:

https://www.academia.edu/14723908/SW..._EDGED_WEAPONS

If you have any problems - write to me, I will send it to you.

ausjulius · 15th June 2021, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saracen

You can download this work of Vakhtang Kiziria and Irakly Bakradze in English by the link here:

https://www.academia.edu/14723908/SW..._EDGED_WEAPONS

If you have any problems - write to me, I will send it to you.

nice, thanks,

Rick · 15th June 2021, 03:43 AM

This form looks like it would be prone to turning in the hand during use with that canted hilt.

ariel · 16th June 2021, 05:55 AM

These swords usually are exhibited under the moniker “ Kabiani Khmali”, sword with a skirt.
In fact, their real name is unknown; the one we call them now was invented in the early 1900 or around, long after they went out of fashion, just on the basis of their appearance. And it stuck:-)

What is interesting about them is :
A. They were worn edge up
B. They had no guard

Bakradze and Kiziria view them as members of the “ shashka-like” sabers.

ariel · 16th June 2021, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

This form looks like it would be prone to turning in the hand during use with that canted hilt.

I am not sure: their grips are not round, but rectangular.
This was one of the three ways Georgians prevented the turning problem: the other two were a grip that was oval, and the last one was gradual widening of the grip from the pommel to the crossguard.
I never had the privilege to own or even handle a sword with the first and the last variety, but shashkas have oval grips as a rule and most of the kindjals have rectangular grips.

Oliver Pinchot · 1st July 2021, 07:53 PM

I owned one of these skirted sabers many years ago. The grip was of rectangular section and did not turn in the hand when it was swung, in fact, ergonomically, the form would be difficult to improve on. The blade was long, slightly expanding toward the distal end, with radiused, clipped tip. The scabbard was of the same type shown in the first image. It had a paper museum label on it attributing it in Russian to a Georgian general and dated in the 1820s. I don't remember his name now.

These swords were virtually all made in and around Tbilisi. At the minimum, none of the examples pictured in this thread can be attributed to Khevsuria.

Jim McDougall · 14th June 2021, 06:55 PM

These are among the most intriguing Caucasian swords ever, and the actual form was used in mid to latter 18th c. though a degree of them were produced later as 'of the type'.
They are termed western Georgian 'palash' (=straight blade) and according to Kirill Rivkin ("Arms and Armor of the Caucusus", 2015, p.202, fig. 109...one of the most superb references to Caucasian arms...period!)...these were primarily Imerethi c. 1780s; or perhaps Dadiani of Mingrelia.

They seem to have been deemed a sword for royalty or high status individuals.

The curious 'skirt' on these have been supposed to be to protect the scabbard from chafing etc. from the body and trappings of the horse, and replaceable as required (better than replacing scabbard).
King David II of Imerethi had one of these.

I have never found any sort of explanation for the profoundly canted hilt, but presume it lent directed force to the draw cut (?) which was typically carried out with curved saber blades.
It is notable that many Tatar sabers (known as 'ordynka' ) had unusually canted hilts in this manner, but unsure of this influence being significant.

Note: These are not related to Khevsur swords, though Khevsur swords are somewhat within Georgian scope. The Khevsurs are a people situated high in Caucusus mountains above Tiflis (Tblisi) and are quite remote from Georgia proper.

14th June 2021, 04:04 PM	#1
ausjulius Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: musorian territory Posts: 424	gorgrian Khevsur "shashka" well i dont recall these georgian khevsur swords being discussed on here but i find them curious, like yatagan meets shashka. here is an article on these odd swords unfortunately only in russian.. https://docplayer.ru/46695176-Zapadn...ruzhiya-1.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXuZC63VWJg&t=502s i find these swords so odd , im very curious how they handle. Attached Images

14th June 2021, 06:55 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,946	These are among the most intriguing Caucasian swords ever, and the actual form was used in mid to latter 18th c. though a degree of them were produced later as 'of the type'. They are termed western Georgian 'palash' (=straight blade) and according to Kirill Rivkin ("Arms and Armor of the Caucusus", 2015, p.202, fig. 109...one of the most superb references to Caucasian arms...period!)...these were primarily Imerethi c. 1780s; or perhaps Dadiani of Mingrelia. They seem to have been deemed a sword for royalty or high status individuals. The curious 'skirt' on these have been supposed to be to protect the scabbard from chafing etc. from the body and trappings of the horse, and replaceable as required (better than replacing scabbard). King David II of Imerethi had one of these. I have never found any sort of explanation for the profoundly canted hilt, but presume it lent directed force to the draw cut (?) which was typically carried out with curved saber blades. It is notable that many Tatar sabers (known as 'ordynka' ) had unusually canted hilts in this manner, but unsure of this influence being significant. Note: These are not related to Khevsur swords, though Khevsur swords are somewhat within Georgian scope. The Khevsurs are a people situated high in Caucusus mountains above Tiflis (Tblisi) and are quite remote from Georgia proper. Last edited by Jim McDougall; 14th June 2021 at 10:21 PM.

15th June 2021, 03:43 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	This form looks like it would be prone to turning in the hand during use with that canted hilt.

16th June 2021, 05:55 AM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	These swords usually are exhibited under the moniker “ Kabiani Khmali”, sword with a skirt. In fact, their real name is unknown; the one we call them now was invented in the early 1900 or around, long after they went out of fashion, just on the basis of their appearance. And it stuck:-) What is interesting about them is : A. They were worn edge up B. They had no guard Bakradze and Kiziria view them as members of the “ shashka-like” sabers.

1st July 2021, 07:53 PM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 457	I owned one of these skirted sabers many years ago. The grip was of rectangular section and did not turn in the hand when it was swung, in fact, ergonomically, the form would be difficult to improve on. The blade was long, slightly expanding toward the distal end, with radiused, clipped tip. The scabbard was of the same type shown in the first image. It had a paper museum label on it attributing it in Russian to a Georgian general and dated in the 1820s. I don't remember his name now. These swords were virtually all made in and around Tbilisi. At the minimum, none of the examples pictured in this thread can be attributed to Khevsuria.