gorgrian Khevsur "shashka"

[Saracen]

Originally Posted by ausjulius

unfortunately only in russian..

You can download this work of Vakhtang Kiziria and Irakly Bakradze in English by the link here:

https://www.academia.edu/14723908/SW..._EDGED_WEAPONS

If you have any problems - write to me, I will send it to you.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Saracen

You can download this work of Vakhtang Kiziria and Irakly Bakradze in English by the link here:

https://www.academia.edu/14723908/SW..._EDGED_WEAPONS

If you have any problems - write to me, I will send it to you.

nice, thanks,

[Rick]

This form looks like it would be prone to turning in the hand during use with that canted hilt.

[ariel]

These swords usually are exhibited under the moniker “ Kabiani Khmali”, sword with a skirt.
In fact, their real name is unknown; the one we call them now was invented in the early 1900 or around, long after they went out of fashion, just on the basis of their appearance. And it stuck:-)

What is interesting about them is :
A. They were worn edge up
B. They had no guard

Bakradze and Kiziria view them as members of the “ shashka-like” sabers.

[ariel]

Originally Posted by Rick

This form looks like it would be prone to turning in the hand during use with that canted hilt.

I am not sure: their grips are not round, but rectangular.
This was one of the three ways Georgians prevented the turning problem: the other two were a grip that was oval, and the last one was gradual widening of the grip from the pommel to the crossguard.
I never had the privilege to own or even handle a sword with the first and the last variety, but shashkas have oval grips as a rule and most of the kindjals have rectangular grips.

[Oliver Pinchot]

I owned one of these skirted sabers many years ago. The grip was of rectangular section and did not turn in the hand when it was swung, in fact, ergonomically, the form would be difficult to improve on. The blade was long, slightly expanding toward the distal end, with radiused, clipped tip. The scabbard was of the same type shown in the first image. It had a paper museum label on it attributing it in Russian to a Georgian general and dated in the 1820s. I don't remember his name now.

These swords were virtually all made in and around Tbilisi. At the minimum, none of the examples pictured in this thread can be attributed to Khevsuria.

[dat_man]

As everyone else said those are not khevsur swords but western georgian imereti to be specific, and it was mostly nobility weapon used from horse back, in other words a cavalry sword which may explain the reason for the shape and the angle between the hilt and the blade.


I don't how much you know about using swords from horse back but basically it is about pointing your sword at the target "if you are going for a thrust" or lining your sword blade with the target "if you are going for a cut" moments before it reaches it and the power source for the attack would be the speed of the horse, so if we leave cutting for a side and focus on thrusting, being on a horse means you are higher than your target with a normal hilt that is in line with the blade you may need to bend your wrist to do the thrust but the problem with that is you may injure your wrist which is not something you would like to happen while fighting, with an angle similar to this you can keep your wrist in more straight with your arm which could prevent or reduce your injury, at least that is what I think.


We also see similar angle between hilts and blades in swords used by nomadic people wich used swords from horse back, and that is why I think that is the reason for such sword design

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by dat_man

As everyone else said those are not khevsur swords but western georgian imereti to be specific, and it was mostly nobility weapon used from horse back, in other words a cavalry sword which may explain the reason for the shape and the angle between the hilt and the blade.


I don't how much you know about using swords from horse back but basically it is about pointing your sword at the target "if you are going for a thrust" or lining your sword blade with the target "if you are going for a cut" moments before it reaches it and the power source for the attack would be the speed of the horse, so if we leave cutting for a side and focus on thrusting, being on a horse means you are higher than your target with a normal hilt that is in line with the blade you may need to bend your wrist to do the thrust but the problem with that is you may injure your wrist which is not something you would like to happen while fighting, with an angle similar to this you can keep your wrist in more straight with your arm which could prevent or reduce your injury, at least that is what I think.


We also see similar angle between hilts and blades in swords used by nomadic people wich used swords from horse back, and that is why I think that is the reason for such sword design

This is a resounding analysis of combat from horseback! and I simply must ask where you attained this experience. While I did some fencing (a zillion years ago) and even some stage combat....none was ever 'mounted'.
As cavalry training with horses and swords ended before WWII in the military, no experience there was available either.

Regarding these swords and use in Khevsuria, it must be remembered that although there is a notable degree of diffusion throughout Georgian regions as Caucasian in general, however the Khevsurs are an animist people living extremely remotely in the Caucasian Mountains. I recall research on them back in the 90s, and there was precious little known of them. Other than the cursory material in Lebedynsky (in French) and Astvatsaturnian (in Russian), there was zero.
When I reached a public affairs official at the Soviet embassy in Washington to ask for information on Khevsurs, he acted like I was nuts, and never heard of such people.

What we have learned is that as remote as the Khevsurs were, there would of course be an incidental case of a 'novelty' weapon finding use in Khevsuria, there was no prevalence or preponderance of these there. Also, the Khevsurs were not particularly known for being mounted for combat (though the appearance of them fully armored in Tblisi in 1917 and mounted is noted in Halliburton's "Seven League Boots". )

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by dat_man

A
We also see similar angle between hilts and blades in swords used by nomadic people wich used swords from horse back, and that is why I think that is the reason for such sword design

I agree 100% with you. It's a "push sword", and the hilts from Central Asia/ Turkic / nomadic populations have something in common. Early Ottoman and persian swords have also the same kind of hilts. Then if you look at Indian pata, they are too long and too heavy to be used by pedestrians, the transversal hilt and protective guard were also very good for charges, and very protective for wrists.