Meteoric Patrem-Made In England... - Page 3

A. G. Maisey · 14th April 2008, 07:53 AM

Ferry, that's only a few of my tools, I just picked up a handful out of the drawer to use as examples, I've probably got about 20 various scrapers, about three times as many rifflers I've shown, more of everything. In fact you need a lot, because things get blunt, and if you're constantly stopping to sharpen tools it slows things down too much. When Pak Parman passed on, one of the things he left me was his tools. I've never used them, so they are just as he had them on the last day he worked. I'll post a pic of these tools one day when I get around to it.

Tim Simmons · 14th April 2008, 10:35 AM

Tools are so universal. Here are a few of mine. I only use the wood handled scorpa tools when cutting detail {textures like animal fur} back into metal when the casting sprue has been removed or if the cast has not quite taken fine detail in places.

ferrylaki · 15th April 2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Tools are so universal. Here are a few of mine. I only use the wood handled scorpa tools when cutting detail {textures like animal fur} back into metal when the casting sprue has been removed or if the cast has not quite taken fine detail in places.

I figure out there's still a very long way to gather those tools.
jewellers saw, skraper, files, wheatstone, hachsaw atc atc...
wow ... so many of them, thanks for sharing all these knowledge with me.
.

FERRYLAKI
JAKARTA

Montino Bourbon · 18th October 2009, 06:57 PM

Loved the finished product!

Now, I need lessons!

Mumtazb · 7th November 2009, 02:14 AM

Amazing work...how long have you been smithing Graham? I saw over on BB that you're from Wigan...I'm from Bury....would love to see some of your work in person, if possible.

ThePepperSkull · 11th March 2010, 04:18 AM

amazing work, Graham, amd very interesting discussion!

"a lot of people want it, but who is prepared to pay the price?" Very true, even in my case I'm ashamed to say. Having had talks with Graham a few months back regarding a commission, then realizing the cost was staggering to me at first. Reading more into this subject, however, leads me to believe it is worth such a price.

This has also sparked more interest my desire of learning the process in which a Keris is made. I've been working/volunteering with a few blacksmiths, as well as professional knifemakers in order to gain a level of familiarity with the tools of the trade and plan (in the very very distant future when I'm comfortable with my skills) to find somewhere in Indonesia, much like Alan has, to further my skills by learning how to make keris (as well as the cultural traditions behind it). Perhaps also Malaysia, where their tradition of Keris Sundang making is apparantly still alive (although not thriving unfortunately). Of course, I would see this also as an academic endeavor (as opposed to attempting to make a living out of it) but with a slightly different purpose.

My eventual study will involve the development of the Moro style kris and how its journey from Java to Mindanao has affected its design. Particularly its early incarnations from the 18th century when the Kris Sundang from the Sulu Sultanate still exhibited the meticulous level of craftsmanship of its javanese predecessor. Later designs, I find, were more crude in terms of sculpting and chiseling of the blade's sor-soran area while its focus shifted onto crafting a broader, more hefty slashing-battle oriented blade. I always found it a shame that the balance between the two was never maintained as time had passed.

I think that to gain a more profound understanding of the Moro Kris that my ancestors have so frequently used in history, it is imperative for me to gain an acceptable in-depth knowledge on (not only the fabrication process, but the traditions behind) its predecessor, the Javanese Keris. Reading posts in this forum and gaining knowledge from textbooks regarding the Javanese Keris has further enriched my appreciation for the it as the profound cultural artwork it is, as opposed to just as the blueprint for another culture's weapon as I had once percieved it. It (The keris) is not, as I once thought, just a chapter of a book to flip through to get to the end -- it is quite a meaty story in and of itself!

Alan, I may send you a Private Message soon regarding Keris making appreticeship as I am very much interested.

GIO · 15th March 2010, 08:56 PM

I am astonished in front of the skill of British smiths. My compliments !
On the other hand I made a reflection: if a good smith can forge a kris of such a level, what is left of the charming mistery of an Eastern weapon whose origins date back hundreds of years and the asimmetric form of which still is an unresolved question. It is more or less as if somebody could forge a sword with the same characteristics of a sword made by the great Japanese masters like Masamune or Yoshihiro. If so only antique or historically important specimen would mantain a certain "spiritual" value.

I would like now to tell what happened to me some ten years ago, in Liverpool.
I visited the shop of an antique arms dealer, and I told him that I used to collect kris. At this point he showed me a kris blade, made by a friend of him, and I almost did not believe this story. The kris was Bali style, and if I well remember without the ganja (too difficult, maybe ? Or the smith did not have interest in completing his work, having already demonstrated his skill ?)
Unfortunately I did not investigate any more and I had no more opportunity to go to Liverpool.

GIO · 15th March 2010, 09:02 PM

I posted a comment on this subject, but my text went another part, I don't know where

GIO · 15th March 2010, 09:04 PM

Please apologize,all is OK

lemmythesmith · 15th March 2010, 11:10 PM

Hi Gio, I'm glad you like my work!! The shop you visited in Liverpool would have been my friend's shop-the keris you handled was one I made many years ago in a mixture of styles. I think it did have a gongo but in my ignorance I soldered it to the blade, the keris was never finished before my friend took it in part exchange for a nice gendaito by Ichihara Nagamitsu. Small world huh?

P.S I'm much better at making Japanese blades than I am at making keris

GIO · 16th March 2010, 12:30 PM

Hi Lemmy,
Yes, small world !
Now I would like to see one of your swords. Could you post a photo ?
Are you a professional smith (or, better, artist) or only a hobbist ?
Pleased having met you here.

David · 16th March 2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Hi Lemmy,
Yes, small world !
Now I would like to see one of your swords. Could you post a photo ?
Are you a professional smith (or, better, artist) or only a hobbist ?
Pleased having met you here.

If you mean one of his Japanese swords i am afraid that this forum is not the place for that. Maybe you could exchange emails or perhaps Lemmy has a website you could visit.

GIO · 18th March 2010, 10:33 AM

Hi David,
OK, you are right.

cedric Le Dauphin · 23rd March 2010, 10:16 AM

Hi! Graham.,

Congratulations for the work, I’m very impressed.
I know that it might be of less interest for the steel men, but can you post closer pics of the handle you carved.
I’d love also to know how was your process of carving the ivory, the kind of ivory you chose etc,

best regards Cedric

lemmythesmith · 28th March 2010, 05:51 PM

Hi Cedric, the ivory is antique elephant that I managed to get hold of long before the current ban. I tend to carve with a dremel with small burr cutters to "rough out" then refine and carve smaller detail with a sghian dubh I made from a scrap of damascus. Here's the photo of the hilt.

Regards, Graham.

ganjawulung · 28th March 2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemmythesmith

...the ivory is antique elephant that I managed to get hold of long before the current ban. I tend to carve with a dremel with small burr cutters to "rough out" then refine and carve smaller detail with a sghian dubh I made from a scrap of damascus. Here's the photo of the hilt.

Hi marvelous Graham...
I really like your workmanship. Beautiful "durga hilt"... And I hope these pictures below may inspire your next work. Three styles of old "durga hilts" -- two Cirebon style and one Balinese style...

GANJAWULUNG

14th April 2008, 10:35 AM	#62
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,807	Tools are so universal. Here are a few of mine. I only use the wood handled scorpa tools when cutting detail {textures like animal fur} back into metal when the casting sprue has been removed or if the cast has not quite taken fine detail in places. Attached Images

18th October 2009, 06:57 PM	#64
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Thank you, Alan! Loved the finished product! Now, I need lessons!

11th March 2010, 04:18 AM	#66
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	amazing work, Graham, amd very interesting discussion! "a lot of people want it, but who is prepared to pay the price?" Very true, even in my case I'm ashamed to say. Having had talks with Graham a few months back regarding a commission, then realizing the cost was staggering to me at first. Reading more into this subject, however, leads me to believe it is worth such a price. This has also sparked more interest my desire of learning the process in which a Keris is made. I've been working/volunteering with a few blacksmiths, as well as professional knifemakers in order to gain a level of familiarity with the tools of the trade and plan (in the very very distant future when I'm comfortable with my skills) to find somewhere in Indonesia, much like Alan has, to further my skills by learning how to make keris (as well as the cultural traditions behind it). Perhaps also Malaysia, where their tradition of Keris Sundang making is apparantly still alive (although not thriving unfortunately). Of course, I would see this also as an academic endeavor (as opposed to attempting to make a living out of it) but with a slightly different purpose. My eventual study will involve the development of the Moro style kris and how its journey from Java to Mindanao has affected its design. Particularly its early incarnations from the 18th century when the Kris Sundang from the Sulu Sultanate still exhibited the meticulous level of craftsmanship of its javanese predecessor. Later designs, I find, were more crude in terms of sculpting and chiseling of the blade's sor-soran area while its focus shifted onto crafting a broader, more hefty slashing-battle oriented blade. I always found it a shame that the balance between the two was never maintained as time had passed. I think that to gain a more profound understanding of the Moro Kris that my ancestors have so frequently used in history, it is imperative for me to gain an acceptable in-depth knowledge on (not only the fabrication process, but the traditions behind) its predecessor, the Javanese Keris. Reading posts in this forum and gaining knowledge from textbooks regarding the Javanese Keris has further enriched my appreciation for the it as the profound cultural artwork it is, as opposed to just as the blueprint for another culture's weapon as I had once percieved it. It (The keris) is not, as I once thought, just a chapter of a book to flip through to get to the end -- it is quite a meaty story in and of itself! Alan, I may send you a Private Message soon regarding Keris making appreticeship as I am very much interested. Last edited by ThePepperSkull; 11th March 2010 at 05:03 AM.

28th March 2010, 05:51 PM	#75
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Cedric, the ivory is antique elephant that I managed to get hold of long before the current ban. I tend to carve with a dremel with small burr cutters to "rough out" then refine and carve smaller detail with a sghian dubh I made from a scrap of damascus. Here's the photo of the hilt. Regards, Graham. Attached Images

14th April 2008, 07:53 AM	#61
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,892	Ferry, that's only a few of my tools, I just picked up a handful out of the drawer to use as examples, I've probably got about 20 various scrapers, about three times as many rifflers I've shown, more of everything. In fact you need a lot, because things get blunt, and if you're constantly stopping to sharpen tools it slows things down too much. When Pak Parman passed on, one of the things he left me was his tools. I've never used them, so they are just as he had them on the last day he worked. I'll post a pic of these tools one day when I get around to it.

7th November 2009, 02:14 AM	#65
Mumtazb Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3	Amazing work...how long have you been smithing Graham? I saw over on BB that you're from Wigan...I'm from Bury....would love to see some of your work in person, if possible.

15th March 2010, 08:56 PM	#67
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	I am astonished in front of the skill of British smiths. My compliments ! On the other hand I made a reflection: if a good smith can forge a kris of such a level, what is left of the charming mistery of an Eastern weapon whose origins date back hundreds of years and the asimmetric form of which still is an unresolved question. It is more or less as if somebody could forge a sword with the same characteristics of a sword made by the great Japanese masters like Masamune or Yoshihiro. If so only antique or historically important specimen would mantain a certain "spiritual" value. I would like now to tell what happened to me some ten years ago, in Liverpool. I visited the shop of an antique arms dealer, and I told him that I used to collect kris. At this point he showed me a kris blade, made by a friend of him, and I almost did not believe this story. The kris was Bali style, and if I well remember without the ganja (too difficult, maybe ? Or the smith did not have interest in completing his work, having already demonstrated his skill ?) Unfortunately I did not investigate any more and I had no more opportunity to go to Liverpool.

15th March 2010, 09:02 PM	#68
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	I posted a comment on this subject, but my text went another part, I don't know where

15th March 2010, 09:04 PM	#69
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Please apologize,all is OK

15th March 2010, 11:10 PM	#70
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi Gio, I'm glad you like my work!! The shop you visited in Liverpool would have been my friend's shop-the keris you handled was one I made many years ago in a mixture of styles. I think it did have a gongo but in my ignorance I soldered it to the blade, the keris was never finished before my friend took it in part exchange for a nice gendaito by Ichihara Nagamitsu. Small world huh? P.S I'm much better at making Japanese blades than I am at making keris

16th March 2010, 12:30 PM	#71
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Hi Lemmy, Yes, small world ! Now I would like to see one of your swords. Could you post a photo ? Are you a professional smith (or, better, artist) or only a hobbist ? Pleased having met you here.

18th March 2010, 10:33 AM	#73
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 313	Hi David, OK, you are right.

23rd March 2010, 10:16 AM	#74
cedric Le Dauphin Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Paris Posts: 39	Hi! Graham., Congratulations for the work, I’m very impressed. I know that it might be of less interest for the steel men, but can you post closer pics of the handle you carved. I’d love also to know how was your process of carving the ivory, the kind of ivory you chose etc, best regards Cedric