my Albacete Dagger

[kronckew]

Just bought this Albacete dagger, at auction, with its perforations and the brass inlay.
Always wanted one of these, and managed to get this one at a decent price.
Any Idea on how old it may be? No dimensions yet. No sheath/scabbard 😢. Edge needs some TLC.
Anyone figured out why many have the perforations/brass inlay yet? Knife has a fair amount of Pointillé decorations...


Thanks in advance for any comments.

[fernando]

Nice. aren't you going to clean it ?



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[Jim McDougall]

Can anyone explain the distinct aperture in these Albacete daggers (of plug bayonet form)?

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Can anyone explain the distinct aperture in these Albacete daggers (of plug bayonet form)?

For the millionth time, Jim; these Albacete daggers have nothing to do with plug bayonets

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

For the millionth time, Jim; these Albacete daggers have nothing to do with plug bayonets

Oh Nando! I've said a million times not to exaggerate
But regardless....what is this thing in the blade on the DAGGER for ?

[fernando]

You may download this one from the Internet; too heavy to upload here. If you can't read Spanish, use the translating engine ... or just enjoy the pictures.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

For the millionth time, Jim; these Albacete daggers have nothing to do with plug bayonets

Fernando, I wanted to share with you how I came upon this notion that Albacete daggers, at least the type I have referred to which 'look' like plug bayonets, indeed had a certain association.

Probably one of the foremost authorities on bayonets was my friend, the late Roger Evans, who wrote "The Plug Bayonet" in 2002. This man was literally obsessed with this weapon form, and I was familiar with his countless column in "The Armourer" magazine titled "Cold Steel" for years before we began communicating.

In his book (op. cit p.141), he describes how the Spaniard, in their affinity for maintaining tradition often held to their old form miguelet lock smooth bore guns well into the 19th century. This might offer some idea of the reason the plug bayonet maintained its familiar hilt form even long after this weapon had become effectively obsolete.

He notes further (p.141) that "..it is worth noting that the cognomen 'Plug bayonet' , in Spanish 'bayoneta de taco' is a neologism coined by modern Spanish collectors. Traditionally the weapon has been described there only by the more general terms cuchillo de caza or cuchullo de monte (i.e. hunting or mountain knife). "

It seems the 'name game' has virtually no bounds, nor the application of 'weapons lore'.

Regarding the mysterious aperture in the Albacete daggers (p.158-168, in the chapter titled "The Plug Bayonets of Albacete"), which is not an exclusive feature by any means in ALL of them, apparently certainly the 19th century forms with Bowie type blades.

"...at an earlier period, however other blade forms were also favored like that of the knife shown on p.158 with its distinctive punched dot decoration combined with circular holes or slots drilled through the blade thickness into which thin strips of brass were often inserted. These rather strange blade features were purely a traditional form of ornament, although it has been said that they were reservoirs into which poison was smeared with the object of making a wound more deadly. This is probably no more than an example of the kind of romanticized legend that often grows around traditional weaponry. An alternative theory is that the blade apertures with their reed brass like inserts were hunters whistles. Producing any kind of sound by blowing vigorously through these slots seems however to be impossible".

Naturally these IMO, romanticized ideas are on their face, nonsense, just as so many of these in weapons lore, but I wanted to share them here as a matter of reference. It would seem that often features held traditionally on many weapons forms have become vestigial representations of some earlier element, but more often might simply be a distinct ornamentation device.

I probably should have consulted this reference before asking the question, but did not have it at hand at the time. If I can find the reference you have suggested it will be interesting to see its perspective.

[Interested Party]

I don't know how germane this is to the design we are discussing, or how anatomically true the explanation is, but I thought it should be mentioned. This is from a discussion of a cut out on a Philipine blade from tanaruz's thread visayan kris http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28209 post #2 in the Ethnographic forum ".....update on the Visayan kris. Since this was a 'mystery blade' to us(me and my father)-having an 'open groove' in the middle of the blade, we sought the original blacksmith in the hinterlands of Iloilo (and oh, it was scary because of some 'insurgents'). The kris' design was the blacksmith's signature design- to identify it being from his hometown. It was also designed, he said, to lighten the blade and most especially- if 'stabbed into the body (lungs, in particular) it would cause the collapse of the lungs and thus instant death.' "

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by fernando

Nice. aren't you going to clean it ?
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Hasn't arrived yet from the Auction house.

I'll clean off any active rust/corrosion. Probably sharpen the edge to remove/even up any chips or nicks. Will try to keep any patination on the knife and grip brass.

I Will need to get/make a scabbard for it.

[SteveL]

Couple of recent purchases.

[kronckew]

Originally Posted by SteveL

Couple of recent purchases.Attachment 221332
...

I like that one. Very classy Corsican 'Vendetta'.
The grip shows 'Albacete' influence in the patterning.

[SteveL]

Originally Posted by kronckew

I like that one. Very classy Corsican 'Vendetta'.
The grip shows 'Albacete' influence in the patterning.

Thanks.... it's definitely from Spain.

[David R]

Another one that arrived at mine yesterday.....