Mandau pommel representation?

[asomotif]

Pfew....

I am glad that Arjan already replied.
That was exactely what I wanted to write

But seriously. The global shape of mandau hilts, in my opnion, is largely dictated by the shape of the antler from which it is cut/carved.

There are various shapes, but in most cases they are following the natural shape of the antler of the sambar deer.

Probably the various tribes will have their own names for different mandau hilt shapes. But in this respect I would like to recommend "the Womans Warpath" by Traude Gavin.
This is a book about textiles / Pua and Miss Gavin points out the fact that in our western minds we often want designs to be depicting something.
So if a design is called "centipede" or "leech" design, we start searching this design for features that resemble a cetipede or leech.
While in certain cases realting to Pua/textiles, the name of the design is just a name, because the woman wanted to give a certain design a recognisable name in order to be able to discuss it or to recall or reproduce it.

Take for instance a "stanley knife" in our culture.
The knife does not look like a person called stanley.
But with this name we all know what type/shape and function we are talking about.

In mandau hilts, we often see that the protruding ends of the hilt ar hollow and decorated with fangs. IMHO most probably to depict an ASO/Dragon.
But to take such a hilt and than decide that it depicts a dragon will probably be to easy.

Anyway, a veryinteresting thread. Thank you Miguel for starting it.
I would like to join Maurice in his hope that somemore forumites wil join the discussion and contribute with odd or scarce examples of hilts.

BTW, of course we already have a very large number of pictures on this fourm with quite scarce and rare mandau hilts.
Lets do our best to add some more

Best regards,
Willem

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Henk

Migueldiaz, Thank you for starting this thread.

Thanks too, Henk. And I do hope that with the heads of forumites put together, but still attached to the shoulders though the 'mystery' of the mandau hilt's design would be lifted a little.

Originally Posted by asomotif

This is a book about textiles / Pua and Miss Gavin points out the fact that in our western minds we often want designs to be depicting something ...

Thanks too Willem for your further elaboration on the subject. And I think it's a very good point you mentioned, among others -- taking the proper perspective (the various tribes' own viewpoint), would be key in understanding better the subject matter.

I am now browsing Quer Durch Borneo. Per some of the pics I saw in there (below), I've now come to the conclusion that, (a) these folks really know how to make swords, and (b) I was born into the wrong tribe

[Battara]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

(b) I was born into the wrong tribe

Oh..I don't know about that. The Philippines has a long tradition of great carving as well. Take a look sometime at the okir tombstones of the Sulu islands. And then there are the Maranao building carvings in okir.

I don't know if you are a Tagalog, but at one time we may have had such artwork too.

I also noticed in the pictures there were women that looked like they were doing a version of tinikling dance. Truly they are cousins to Filipinos.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Battara

Oh..I don't know about that. The Philippines has a long tradition of great carving as well. Take a look sometime at the okir tombstones of the Sulu islands. And then there are the Maranao building carvings in okir.

I don't know if you are a Tagalog, but at one time we may have had such artwork too.

I also noticed in the pictures there were women that looked like they were doing a version of tinikling dance. Truly they are cousins to Filipinos.

Hey Battara, I was just being cute when I said I was born into the wrong tribe

That remark of mine is supposed to refer (tongue in cheek) to the pic where we see two men, very relaxed, while being attended to by their sweethearts.

Each region in southeast Asia is of course known for their own unique (but interrelated) culture. And each can be very proud of his/her heritage.

And a little off-topic, yes I am a Tagalog (Batangas on my mother's side and Pampanga-Nueva Ecija on the paternal side) ... and as a Filipino I am very proud of the history and culture of the country

Back to the topic ... as you also mentioned the links amongst the various southeast Asian ethnolinguistic groups are very intimate.

Again, I'd like to cite as evidence linguistics -- the Philippine word for headhunting or raiding or warfare (i.e., kayaw, pronounced kah-yao, the last syllable rhymes with cow) is almost the same throughout the region (Taiwan, Phils., Malaysia, Indonesia, etc., i.e., the Austronesian world), as we can see in this excerpt from a paper:

*maN-: PAn or PMP??-II

Blust (1999: 68, footnote 14): “Prominent examples include Puyuma [Taiwan aborigine] /mangayaw/ ‘to hunt heads’, a form which is synchronically unanalyzable, but is seen to have a historical prefix *maN- by comparison with Isneg ['Igorot'/ Phils.] /kayaw/ ‘headhunting’: /ma-ngayaw/ ‘to hunt heads’, Western Bukidnon Manobo [Mindanao, Phils.]/kayew/ ‘be in readiness of fight, be in array’: /me-ngayew/ ‘a raider’: /pe-ngayew/ ‘to raid a house or village in order to kill someone’, Kayan (Uma Juman dialect) [Borneo, Indonesia portion] /kayo/ ‘post-harvest ceremony for the ritual purification of weapons’: /ngayo/ ‘go to war, hunt heads’, Iban [Sarawak, Malaysia] /kayau/ ‘raiding, war, foray because of a feud, head- hunting’: /ngayau/ ‘make war on, go on a foray’, and POc [proto-Oceanic] *panako ‘steal’, a form which is synchronically unanalyzable in many Oc [Oceanic] languages, but which is seen to have a historical prefix *paN- by comparison with Aklanon [Panay Is., Phils.] /takaw/ ‘steal’: /pa-nakw/ ‘theft’ or Toba Batak [northern Sumatra] /tangko/ ‘theft’: /pa-nangko/ ‘thief’.”

*maN-: PAn or PMP??-III ␣ Isnag / Isneg [northern Luzon, Phils.]

(a) ŋáyaw ‘headhunting’ (Rudy Barlaan, pers. comm. 2008)

(b) agngangáyaw (< ag-CV-ngáyaw): ‘the time of headhunting’ (Vanoverbergh 1972)

Bugkalot / Ilongot [northern Luzon, Phils.] (Liao 2008)

(a) sit (t)a ŋáyo(v)an: one Lig headhunting; ‘a group of people going for headhunting in one place’ [Belance, Quirino, Aurora]

(b) ŋáyo(v)ɨn=dɨ=ydɨ no: buvat. headhunt=Gen.3p=Nom.3p Lcv tomorrow ‘They will headhunt against them tomorrow.’

The above dump is a bit jumbled but in essence, kayaw is almost the same word with the same meaning in Malaysia and Indonesia (i.e., in Borneo).

Which leads us back to the mandau and its hilt form, as it relates to headhunting, which headhunting activity was not unique to Borneo, but was widely practiced in the southeast Asia portion of Austronesia.

Thus when I posed the query as to the possible representation of the mandau hilt, I was also thinking of its possible explanatory power to the hilt forms of the wider formerly-headhunting Austronesian world

PS - Does anybody know the root word or meaning of the Bornean word, Ngaju? Perhaps it's also related to ngayaw (verb form of the noun kayaw).

[Battara]

Oh....I misunderstood....glad to hear it (I am Tagalog on my father's side).

BTW - thank you for the wonderful pictures.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Battara

Oh....I misunderstood....glad to hear it (I am Tagalog on my father's side).

My writing was the one not clear ... and good to know that your ancestors too were Luzon river-dwellers, i.e., taga-ilog (from the river/s)

[Battara]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

My writing was the one not clear ... and good to know that your ancestors too were Luzon river-dwellers, i.e., taga-ilog (from the river/s)

Hey that goes with my other ancestors on my mother's side - Irish (+Scots and Cherokee) - RIVER DANCERS!