Old kris for comment

Henk · 20th March 2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

Hello Henk,

Thanks for sharing this - I have a sweet spot or odd pieces!

Is there any hint that the blade may be European?

The base resembles Indian swords and it may be an attempt to integrate a foreign blade into a Moro kris rather than being a repair...

The pommel is also unusual (or rather unique AFAIK).

Despite the patina and based on workmanship, I'm inclined to believe that this piece represents a later attempt (turn of the 19th century?) rather than an older style.

Regards,
Kai

Kai,

My pleasure to share it with you all.

There is no hint that the blade might be European. It has no marks or anything else that could be identified. If such a mark was present i certainly would have made a picture of it.

The blade fits the base with tang like a blade fits into its scabbard. It could be a repair or using, as suggested a foreign blade into a Moro kris.

But, to be honest, i haven't the slightest idea about it. I hope to get some more information from our knowledgeable forummembers.
As mentioned both edges are still rather sharp. Holding it in my hands i'm convinced it is in battle a nasty weapon.

Maurice · 20th March 2010, 06:40 PM

Another headbreaker........

Thank you for sharing this nice one, Henk.

VANDOO · 20th March 2010, 06:48 PM

I BID ON SOMETHING SIMULAR ON EBAY A WHILE BACK BUT THE PICTURES WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO TELL MUCH, OTHER THAN THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS KRIS. IT IS EITHER A NON TRADITIONAL METHOD TO REPAIR A BROKEN TANG OR A MODIFICATION TO STRENGTHEN AND ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR BACA BACA STRAPS

. EITHER WAY IT APPEARS TO BE VERY STRONGLY MOUNTED NOW, I SEE THREE PINS THRU THE BLADE AND TANG AND THERE MAY BE MORE UNDER THE WRAP ON THE HANDLE. AN X RAY WOULD SHOW IF THE ORIGINAL TANG WAS BROKEN AND HIGHLIGHT ANY OTHER PINS OR HOLES IN THE TANG. ALL IN ALL A VERY INTERESTING, STRONG AND ATTRACTIVE MODIFICATION.

THANKS FOR SHAREING

Henk · 20th March 2010, 09:22 PM

Maurice,

My pleasure.

Vandoo,

It is a very strong construction indeed. The tang with the base of this kris is mounted with two pins to the blade. The third pin through the tang is a simple nail in the hilt just passing the tang. I can remove that nail, but the hilt cann't be removed. Don't know the purpose of the nail but it is an old one and i just leave it there.

tom hyle · 28th March 2010, 11:34 PM

Bridging the gap between khanda and kris sundang; beauty; I have long noted the resemblance of the two protrusions below a khanda/firangi type guard to those engaged by the baca baca on kris sundang. Never expected to see the khanda's extreme lagnet on a kris though. Super cool. I more suspect this is original than a repair.

Sajen · 28th March 2010, 11:41 PM

Hello Henk,

very interesting kris, never seen something like this before.

Battara · 29th March 2010, 01:18 AM

I don't know how I missed this thread. Nice Malaysian kris or sundang. Don't think it had baka-baka clamps originally. Many of these kris didn't in my observation. I have seen this type of construction before on both Moro and Malaysian sundang, especially Malaysian ones, although what makes this one unusual is that it extends to the entire bottom part of the blade.

Henk · 30th March 2010, 08:22 PM

Sajen,

I haven't seen one like this neither.

Tom, Battara,

I also think it is not a repair. There are no signs of baka-baka clamps that are missing on the blade so I completely agree with Battara that this one never had baka-baka clamps.
You say Battara, that this is not the first time you see this kind of construction. Any idea what kind of scabbard this one had original?

Gentlemen, thank you for your input.

28th March 2010, 11:34 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	holy Toledo! Bridging the gap between khanda and kris sundang; beauty; I have long noted the resemblance of the two protrusions below a khanda/firangi type guard to those engaged by the baca baca on kris sundang. Never expected to see the khanda's extreme lagnet on a kris though. Super cool. I more suspect this is original than a repair.

20th March 2010, 06:40 PM	#2
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Another headbreaker........ Thank you for sharing this nice one, Henk.

20th March 2010, 06:48 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I BID ON SOMETHING SIMULAR ON EBAY A WHILE BACK BUT THE PICTURES WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO TELL MUCH, OTHER THAN THAT I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS KRIS. IT IS EITHER A NON TRADITIONAL METHOD TO REPAIR A BROKEN TANG OR A MODIFICATION TO STRENGTHEN AND ELIMINATE THE NEED FOR BACA BACA STRAPS . EITHER WAY IT APPEARS TO BE VERY STRONGLY MOUNTED NOW, I SEE THREE PINS THRU THE BLADE AND TANG AND THERE MAY BE MORE UNDER THE WRAP ON THE HANDLE. AN X RAY WOULD SHOW IF THE ORIGINAL TANG WAS BROKEN AND HIGHLIGHT ANY OTHER PINS OR HOLES IN THE TANG. ALL IN ALL A VERY INTERESTING, STRONG AND ATTRACTIVE MODIFICATION. THANKS FOR SHAREING

20th March 2010, 09:22 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Maurice, My pleasure. Vandoo, It is a very strong construction indeed. The tang with the base of this kris is mounted with two pins to the blade. The third pin through the tang is a simple nail in the hilt just passing the tang. I can remove that nail, but the hilt cann't be removed. Don't know the purpose of the nail but it is an old one and i just leave it there.

28th March 2010, 11:41 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hello Henk, very interesting kris, never seen something like this before.

29th March 2010, 01:18 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I don't know how I missed this thread. Nice Malaysian kris or sundang. Don't think it had baka-baka clamps originally. Many of these kris didn't in my observation. I have seen this type of construction before on both Moro and Malaysian sundang, especially Malaysian ones, although what makes this one unusual is that it extends to the entire bottom part of the blade.

30th March 2010, 08:22 PM	#8
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Sajen, I haven't seen one like this neither. Tom, Battara, I also think it is not a repair. There are no signs of baka-baka clamps that are missing on the blade so I completely agree with Battara that this one never had baka-baka clamps. You say Battara, that this is not the first time you see this kind of construction. Any idea what kind of scabbard this one had original? Gentlemen, thank you for your input.