Malay (?) keris from Ebay

Gustav · 15th March 2010, 11:45 PM

Has anybody seen this one alive? Is this a documentated sundang? If yes, what about the age of fittings? It seems to have a sheath mouth from other material.

The other one (excuse me please for using your picture, VVV) also.

PenangsangII · 17th March 2010, 11:40 AM

IMHO, Gustav's keris blade is recent Maduran made dressed in antique hulu, and repaired sheath - classic case of a seller meant to jack up his commodity. David's blade also look quite recent, I think peninsula made and aged less than 50 yrs.... but then its only an opinion....

Gustav · 17th March 2010, 12:10 PM

Dear PenangsangII,

may I ask you, what do you mean by repaired sheath: the buntut replacement, or complete reshaping down to this small size at the mouth and overall?

Your remark about David's keris rises again the question about the blade produktion in Peninsula during the 20 century. If you have knowledge about this subject, could you please share some of it?

Regards

David · 17th March 2010, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Your remark about David's keris rises again the question about the blade produktion in Peninsula during the 20 century. If you have knowledge about this subject, could you please share some of it?

Well the blade was collected by someone i know personally in the USA about 40 years ago and i don't think it was new then. I had thought it was probably 20th century, but pre WW2. I also don't know the specifics of keris production on the Peninsula. Perhaps Dave H., Kai Wee or Shahrial know more about that.

BluErf · 17th March 2010, 01:50 PM

G'day Alan,

All the Malay sundangs I have seen that came in sandang walikat sheaths (the other alternative sheath type for Malay sundang is the more regular rectanglar sampir sheath type) had the horn strip. They come from all sorts of sources, some auction house, some internet websites, ebay, and in person.

I do not examine by what method the horn strips are attached to the sheath, but they mostly look aesthetically complete (i.e. not added on as an afterthought).

I was looking through my archives of photos and managed to pull out 2 examples.

BluErf · 17th March 2010, 01:52 PM

Alan,

I have never seen a Malay sundang in sandang walikat sheath without the horn strip. Are you able to provide pictures of one such specimen? (More examples would of course be better).

Thanks.

BluErf · 17th March 2010, 02:01 PM

Oh forgetful me!!! How could I forget the recent sundang that went on ebay that was helpfully 'deconstructed' by age.

I was interested in this piece until irrational bidding took over and I gave up.

Gustav · 17th March 2010, 02:03 PM

BluErf, there is a remark about this at the end of Alan's post, under EDIT. As I understand it, there was a confusion between "normal" sheaths and Sandang Walikat.

Regarding at least the keris of David, I remember what Alan has said in a thread some time ago (from my memory): it is possible, that a keris, preserved under ideal conditions, outside of SE Asia, would look like made in recent past.

BluErf · 17th March 2010, 02:10 PM

Malay sundangs are pretty rare as a category (about as rare as cotengs, I reckon). I think I have probably only seen around a dozen or so. I think more than half are in sandang walikat sheaths.

15th March 2010, 11:45 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Has anybody seen this one alive? Is this a documentated sundang? If yes, what about the age of fittings? It seems to have a sheath mouth from other material. The other one (excuse me please for using your picture, VVV) also. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 16th March 2010 at 12:14 AM.

17th March 2010, 12:10 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Dear PenangsangII, may I ask you, what do you mean by repaired sheath: the buntut replacement, or complete reshaping down to this small size at the mouth and overall? Your remark about David's keris rises again the question about the blade produktion in Peninsula during the 20 century. If you have knowledge about this subject, could you please share some of it? Regards Last edited by Gustav; 17th March 2010 at 12:31 PM.

17th March 2010, 01:50 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	G'day Alan, All the Malay sundangs I have seen that came in sandang walikat sheaths (the other alternative sheath type for Malay sundang is the more regular rectanglar sampir sheath type) had the horn strip. They come from all sorts of sources, some auction house, some internet websites, ebay, and in person. I do not examine by what method the horn strips are attached to the sheath, but they mostly look aesthetically complete (i.e. not added on as an afterthought). I was looking through my archives of photos and managed to pull out 2 examples. Attached Images

17th March 2010, 02:01 PM	#7
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Oh forgetful me!!! How could I forget the recent sundang that went on ebay that was helpfully 'deconstructed' by age. I was interested in this piece until irrational bidding took over and I gave up. Attached Images

17th March 2010, 11:40 AM	#2
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	IMHO, Gustav's keris blade is recent Maduran made dressed in antique hulu, and repaired sheath - classic case of a seller meant to jack up his commodity. David's blade also look quite recent, I think peninsula made and aged less than 50 yrs.... but then its only an opinion....

17th March 2010, 01:52 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Alan, I have never seen a Malay sundang in sandang walikat sheath without the horn strip. Are you able to provide pictures of one such specimen? (More examples would of course be better). Thanks.

17th March 2010, 02:03 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	BluErf, there is a remark about this at the end of Alan's post, under EDIT. As I understand it, there was a confusion between "normal" sheaths and Sandang Walikat. Regarding at least the keris of David, I remember what Alan has said in a thread some time ago (from my memory): it is possible, that a keris, preserved under ideal conditions, outside of SE Asia, would look like made in recent past.

17th March 2010, 02:10 PM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Malay sundangs are pretty rare as a category (about as rare as cotengs, I reckon). I think I have probably only seen around a dozen or so. I think more than half are in sandang walikat sheaths.