For sharing and coment

[BluErf]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful.

I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself.

The hilt and sheath form do not look Sulawesi to me at all. Perhaps Sipakatuo can share his insights into this keris form since he is from Sulawesi, and more likely to be better informed on the native keris forms than the rest of us.

[sipakatuo]

Hi Danny and Toh Kai Wei

This Keris mainly found in Sumatra, so its a Keris Sumatra with Bugis characters (Bugis Sumatra). But dont be surprise if sometimes you found a Sumatra form in Sulawesi. Keris is one of export and import commodities and as a moving object you can expect it to be everywhere. Hundred years ago when Makassar was a big commercial port (after Malaka collapsed) people from everywhere in Nusantara came to Makassar and so Sumatran. They also participate and working as pandai Keris helping Tunipalanga Ulaweng Sombaya Ri Gowa producing Keris for his infantri department.

As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Thanks


Andi

[danny1976]

Hi Adni,

Thank u for youre input .
I gett a little confused at the moment, when i.m looking att the kris disk from Jensen under the section Sulawesi there,s a lot of simmilarities with my keris , for example the way the toli toli is made, the filagrain has a lote of simalarity,s as a keris on his disk.


As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Do u know the meaning of the pamor Timpa Laja ? Please explain more about the ''sisi '' . What kind of sind would indicate a 'good' or ''bad'' keris.
I supose you are are talking about the tua/isi ? I have my own opinion about it but its always nice to learn.

I will clean and try to stain the blade when the whaeter is better over here

Regards,

[David]

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Adni

This may have simply been a slip of the keys, but sipakatuo's name is "Andi". I mention this because we do have an "Adni" who is a member hear so i am trying to avoid confusion.

[danny1976]

Thanks David.

Maaf Andi

[sipakatuo]

Hi Danny

David thanks for the correction.
Danny, please dont get confused with the Passingkerru Sumange, that is one of characters of the Bugis Keris. I have promised to explain and tell about passingkerru sumange later.

Timpa Laja means 'bersusun-susun' seperti atap depan rumah orang Bugis, it is represent a high status of the wearer. Sisi means 'Tanda', good or bad. We are not talking about 'Tuah' here, we dont use that terminology when examining Keris Bugis. In the old manuscript Lontara about the Bugis pusaka only stated 'Sisi'. When a Buginesse find a Pusaka first thing they look is 'Suke' or Sukatan, secondly is 'Sisi', and the last thing is 'Ure'. They even dare to cut half of the Keris if they think it is not suitable for them.

Measuring 'Suke' or sukatan have many ways. The easiest way is by measuring it using own fingger. As for Badik and some Gajang Pantje (small Keris or Bugis Patrem) simply put yor thumb at tip of ganja (Kancing in Bugis) and your middle fingger at the top (satu jengkal), if the Badik or Keris Patrem length is longger than your mid fingger means it is not suitable for you. Because if you use this Badik or Keris to fight you can get hurt by your opponnent and easily to get stab. This is one of many example of measuring 'Suke' in the old traditional Bugis faith.

Re-post your picture when cleaned and see if I can be any help.


Andi

Originally Posted by danny1976

Hi Adni,

Thank u for youre input .
I gett a little confused at the moment, when i.m looking att the kris disk from Jensen under the section Sulawesi there,s a lot of simmilarities with my keris , for example the way the toli toli is made, the filagrain has a lote of simalarity,s as a keris on his disk.


As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad.

Do u know the meaning of the pamor Timpa Laja ? Please explain more about the ''sisi '' . What kind of sind would indicate a 'good' or ''bad'' keris.
I supose you are are talking about the tua/isi ? I have my own opinion about it but its always nice to learn.

I will clean and try to stain the blade when the whaeter is better over here

Regards,

[danny1976]

Hi Guys,

Bumping this tread up ...
Finnaly i did find time to clean the blade and i did try to wash it.....
it was verry hard on this blade, 1 week pinaple juice, than mutih and worked on this blade from 11.00 till 17.00. the result is not a perfer stain
i did gett the first reaction on the blade after hours..
but its oke like this for me and the pamor is viseble.

so if someone want to make a ques ?

Andi was talking the last time over the pamor and the status of the wearer, and the traditionel meaning of the pamor .so Andi i hope you wil hop in .

it has a ''strange'' patron some kind of stars/butterfly .
i have now idea....

regards,

danny (p.s sorry for the bad photo,s )

[Sajen]

Hi Danny,

no idea how to call this pamor but I think that you have done a good job, maybe not perfect but good enough!

Greetz,

Detlef

[BluErf]

Congratulations! This would be a very very rare Bugis keris indeed. The last time I remembered I was wowed was when I saw this "chieftain" keris in Paul De Souza's collection, with crosses and chevrons in the pamor. But your specimen's "star" pamor looks even more outstanding!