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13th March 2010, 04:15 PM
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#1 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 245
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Hi Detlef,
Thanks ! i.m happy with this one  About the restore....I will look for a fitting mendak and maybe try to find a piece of horn or ivory for the buntut. but for the rest i will leave the keris as it is, its old and i dont like it to become a ''bling bling keris '' maybe i will give it a etch with vinager , because what i read a keris from sumatra doesn,t have the same stain with warangan as a javanese. What,s youre opinion about the stain ? regards, danny ow.... is some one has a old medak/pendoko..please pm ? |
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13th March 2010, 04:30 PM
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#2 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,293
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Danny, you can always post a Want ad in Keris Swap .
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13th March 2010, 04:32 PM
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#3 | |
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,791
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Quote:
Hi Danny, since this blade seems to have a very nice pamor I would prefer to give the blade a classic warangan because you will see the pamor better, when you like it more discreet maybe not so strong etched. My guess is that the buntut have been from metal but other will have a better opinion. And you have a pm. Regards, Detlef |
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13th March 2010, 06:25 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 125
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Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful.
I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself. I would strongly recommend that everyone who is interested in the Peninsular/Straits keris read more about the history of the region. Crucial reads are: 1. Tufat al Nafis - by Raja Ali Haji. There is an English translation called The Precious Gift by Barbara Harrison. This will give you a solid background on the history of the Bugis in the Straits from a Bugis Perspective. 2. Syair Perang Siak. This is a history from the perspective of the Sultans of Siak - who were more or less anti-Bugis and pro-Minang/Malay. 3. Sejarah Melayu. Malay Perspective and with lots of legendary history of the Malay people. Understanding what the Malay people are is crucial to understanding the Malay Keris. 4. Hikayat Hang Tuah. Another folk/popular history that is crucial to understanding Malay history. Note the very different story about the infamous keris Taming Sari. 5. Finally: while there are a lot of good reads about there the best all rounder for understanding the Malay world is a volume called "Contesting Malayness" edited by Tim Barnard. This puppy will blow your mind if you have any pre-concieved notions about the Malay World. There are a ton of other very edifying books including Tony Reids two volume history of the early modern period of Southeast Asia "Land Below the Winds" and of course the Cambridge History. The Hikayat Pattani and other vernacular histories also provide much "color" for those of us who seek to understand the keris. Granted there's a lot here but read the volume's listed above and you will have a solid foundation for understanding the Malay Keris. |
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13th March 2010, 07:29 PM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 245
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Hello DAhenkel.
You wrote this .. -------Danny, did you ask the seller whether they had any history behind this keris? Any details about who collected the piece or where it was colleted would be very useful. I think this is a Bugis keris but not Straits. It looks like it could be "tanah besar" that is, from Sulawesi itself.----------- The only thing that i know about the history is what the seller told me. The kris was brought back by a uncle of his wife about 60 years ago and was given as a present to here , the had the keris for more than 30 years on there atick (zolder) The uncle was statsioned on Sumatra during the dutch indie,s . There is another keris by the sister of his wife but she don,t want to sell it he told me , but he would ask here . But can u please explain more about Tanah besar , what would it mean if its from Sulawesi itself. What looks strange to me is that after cleaning the tolo toli its seems like copper verry nice filagrain but the ''machette'' under the toli toli is silver i seems a odd combi to me. Regards, Danny |
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14th March 2010, 04:16 AM
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,180
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14th March 2010, 07:29 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
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Hi Danny and Toh Kai Wei
This Keris mainly found in Sumatra, so its a Keris Sumatra with Bugis characters (Bugis Sumatra). But dont be surprise if sometimes you found a Sumatra form in Sulawesi. Keris is one of export and import commodities and as a moving object you can expect it to be everywhere. Hundred years ago when Makassar was a big commercial port (after Malaka collapsed) people from everywhere in Nusantara came to Makassar and so Sumatran. They also participate and working as pandai Keris helping Tunipalanga Ulaweng Sombaya Ri Gowa producing Keris for his infantri department. As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad. Thanks Andi |
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14th March 2010, 07:36 PM
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#8 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland
Posts: 245
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Hi Adni,
Thank u for youre input . I gett a little confused at the moment, when i.m looking att the kris disk from Jensen under the section Sulawesi there,s a lot of simmilarities with my keris , for example the way the toli toli is made, the filagrain has a lote of simalarity,s as a keris on his disk. As for the ure (Pamor) at the bottom sor soran is Timpa Laja, and above is unclear, please clean it first and try to re-post it. There are many ure in Sulawesi that relate to 'Sisi'. Sisi is signs whether a Keris is Good or Bad. Do u know the meaning of the pamor Timpa Laja ? Please explain more about the ''sisi '' . What kind of sind would indicate a 'good' or ''bad'' keris. I supose you are are talking about the tua/isi ? I have my own opinion about it but its always nice to learn. I will clean and try to stain the blade when the whaeter is better over here Regards, |
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14th March 2010, 07:51 PM
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#9 | |
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Keris forum moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,127
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15th March 2010, 01:49 AM
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 59
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Hi Danny
David thanks for the correction. Danny, please dont get confused with the Passingkerru Sumange, that is one of characters of the Bugis Keris. I have promised to explain and tell about passingkerru sumange later. Timpa Laja means 'bersusun-susun' seperti atap depan rumah orang Bugis, it is represent a high status of the wearer. Sisi means 'Tanda', good or bad. We are not talking about 'Tuah' here, we dont use that terminology when examining Keris Bugis. In the old manuscript Lontara about the Bugis pusaka only stated 'Sisi'. When a Buginesse find a Pusaka first thing they look is 'Suke' or Sukatan, secondly is 'Sisi', and the last thing is 'Ure'. They even dare to cut half of the Keris if they think it is not suitable for them. Measuring 'Suke' or sukatan have many ways. The easiest way is by measuring it using own fingger. As for Badik and some Gajang Pantje (small Keris or Bugis Patrem) simply put yor thumb at tip of ganja (Kancing in Bugis) and your middle fingger at the top (satu jengkal), if the Badik or Keris Patrem length is longger than your mid fingger means it is not suitable for you. Because if you use this Badik or Keris to fight you can get hurt by your opponnent and easily to get stab. This is one of many example of measuring 'Suke' in the old traditional Bugis faith. Re-post your picture when cleaned and see if I can be any help. Andi Quote:
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