Malay (?) keris from Ebay

Marcokeris · 11th March 2010, 10:06 PM

very good...i like a lot the hit, but also sarong and the blade seem nice (pamor tritik?)

A. G. Maisey · 11th March 2010, 10:27 PM

I could be much more certain of my following comments were I to have this keris in my hand, however, here are my immediate impressions:-

1)--- blade is very recent Madura

2)--- hilt is recent Madura production

3)--- scabbard is an old one that has been reshaped to a sandang walikat form, and the piece of horn added to the top to allow perfect fitting of a blade that does not belong with this scabbard.

This appears to be a recent, high class and deliberate attempt to decieve.

Rick · 11th March 2010, 10:43 PM

Hi Alan, the clues that triggered your impressions ; would you care to elaborate for our edification ?

A. G. Maisey · 12th March 2010, 05:24 AM

Blade:- if it looks like a duck, it is a duck, and I've seen thousands of this particular breed of duck. This is not an exaggeration.

Handle:- I've seen this hilt motif in new hilts from Madura, and it looks like Sumenep work, but I'm not nearly so certain of this as I am of the blade; it could probably come from anywhere where good quality carving is still done.

Scabbard:- I've seen the horn glued to the top of the wrongko to ensure good fit a few times, but never on anything old; the actual wood itself looks oldish, it may not have originally been a keris scabbard, but something else; the ivory buntut is perfect and obviously new, normally they're patinated and with a crack or two.

As always when looking at pics, I could be wrong --- but overall I don't think I am. I tend to automatically distrust anything I have not seen before, and I've never seen anything at all like this. With all the keris I have seen and handled, I should have, if it is a genuine type.

DAHenkel · 12th March 2010, 06:11 PM

This keris is Peninsular. Almost certainly Terengganu and probably dating to the 40's or 50's. The hilt is known as a hulu burung serindit. The pamor of the blade is gigi hiu (shark's tooth). Sheath is made from angsana wood with a tanduk seladang (wild buffalo horn) throat. Hilt appears to be gigi (walrus ivory) but could be elephant. The sheath is extraordinary - I've seen more than a few of the so called "sandang walaikat" sheaths from Teregganu but all have been sundangs. This is the first normal keris I've seen with a s/w sheath. That said, I've seen maybe 3 or 4 examples of this hilt form and dozens of the pendokok in Terengganu examples. The blade also, while unusual in quality is not beyond the capability of the Malay pandai.

Note also that the keris was offered with two other better than average Peninsular pieces. A panjang with a typical Peninsular blade and another keris that appears to be an old Bugis example but with a classic Peninsular hilt.

Sorry Alan, all due respect but this is no more Madurese than I am.

David · 12th March 2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

This keris is Peninsular. Almost certainly Terengganu and probably dating to the 40's or 50's. The hilt is known as a hulu burung serindit. The pamor of the blade is gigi hiu (shark's tooth). Sheath is made from angsana wood with a tanduk seladang (wild buffalo horn) throat. Hilt appears to be gigi (walrus ivory) but could be elephant. The sheath is extraordinary - I've seen more than a few of the so called "sandang walaikat" sheaths from Teregganu but all have been sundangs. This is the first normal keris I've seen with a s/w sheath. That said, I've seen maybe 3 or 4 examples of this hilt form and dozens of the pendokok in Terengganu examples. The blade also, while unusual in quality is not beyond the capability of the Malay pandai.

Note also that the keris was offered with two other better than average Peninsular pieces. A panjang with a typical Peninsular blade and another keris that appears to be an old Bugis example but with a classic Peninsular hilt.

Sorry Alan, all due respect but this is no more Madurese than I am.

Hi Dave, it's nice to know that you are still lurking around here.

It's nice to get your perspective as someone deeply involved in Peninsula keris. I was also wondering about Alan's assessment, but frankly both you and he know more than i do so i wait to hear opinions. I also thought this was Peninsula work as well as i have never seen anything with this much Peninsula style coming out of Madura, but Alan has seen soooo much more of what comes out of Madura so i don't want to second guess him.

Gustav · 13th March 2010, 02:12 PM

Three more pics of the Hulu.

Hartadi · 21st March 2010, 12:29 AM

1)--- blade is very recent Madura

2)--- hilt is recent Madura production

This appears to be a recent, high class and deliberate attempt to decieve.[/QUOTE]

Hi Alan, can you please advise how did you define the blade is recent Madura ? is that way to say the blade is newly made or it was made in Madura (place)? cause I know some mpu also made kerisses in Jogjakarta and others..

A. G. Maisey · 21st March 2010, 03:52 AM

Yes, so do I.

This blade is not Central Javanese work.

I don't think I want to comment further in this matter.

I have stated my opinion.

It is of no moment to me if my opinion is accepted or not, and I am unable to alter my opinion in the physical absence of the keris itself.

I've already given a lot of my time to this thread, and the thread as it has developed has diverged into matters that really do not interest me in even the slightest degree.

11th March 2010, 10:43 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Hi Alan, the clues that triggered your impressions ; would you care to elaborate for our edification ? Last edited by Rick; 11th March 2010 at 10:58 PM.

13th March 2010, 02:12 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Three more pics of the Hulu. Attached Images

11th March 2010, 10:06 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	very good...i like a lot the hit, but also sarong and the blade seem nice (pamor tritik?)

11th March 2010, 10:27 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I could be much more certain of my following comments were I to have this keris in my hand, however, here are my immediate impressions:- 1)--- blade is very recent Madura 2)--- hilt is recent Madura production 3)--- scabbard is an old one that has been reshaped to a sandang walikat form, and the piece of horn added to the top to allow perfect fitting of a blade that does not belong with this scabbard. This appears to be a recent, high class and deliberate attempt to decieve.

12th March 2010, 05:24 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Blade:- if it looks like a duck, it is a duck, and I've seen thousands of this particular breed of duck. This is not an exaggeration. Handle:- I've seen this hilt motif in new hilts from Madura, and it looks like Sumenep work, but I'm not nearly so certain of this as I am of the blade; it could probably come from anywhere where good quality carving is still done. Scabbard:- I've seen the horn glued to the top of the wrongko to ensure good fit a few times, but never on anything old; the actual wood itself looks oldish, it may not have originally been a keris scabbard, but something else; the ivory buntut is perfect and obviously new, normally they're patinated and with a crack or two. As always when looking at pics, I could be wrong --- but overall I don't think I am. I tend to automatically distrust anything I have not seen before, and I've never seen anything at all like this. With all the keris I have seen and handled, I should have, if it is a genuine type.

12th March 2010, 06:11 PM	#5
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	This keris is Peninsular. Almost certainly Terengganu and probably dating to the 40's or 50's. The hilt is known as a hulu burung serindit. The pamor of the blade is gigi hiu (shark's tooth). Sheath is made from angsana wood with a tanduk seladang (wild buffalo horn) throat. Hilt appears to be gigi (walrus ivory) but could be elephant. The sheath is extraordinary - I've seen more than a few of the so called "sandang walaikat" sheaths from Teregganu but all have been sundangs. This is the first normal keris I've seen with a s/w sheath. That said, I've seen maybe 3 or 4 examples of this hilt form and dozens of the pendokok in Terengganu examples. The blade also, while unusual in quality is not beyond the capability of the Malay pandai. Note also that the keris was offered with two other better than average Peninsular pieces. A panjang with a typical Peninsular blade and another keris that appears to be an old Bugis example but with a classic Peninsular hilt. Sorry Alan, all due respect but this is no more Madurese than I am.

21st March 2010, 12:29 AM	#8
Hartadi Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 56	1)--- blade is very recent Madura 2)--- hilt is recent Madura production This appears to be a recent, high class and deliberate attempt to decieve.[/QUOTE] Hi Alan, can you please advise how did you define the blade is recent Madura ? is that way to say the blade is newly made or it was made in Madura (place)? cause I know some mpu also made kerisses in Jogjakarta and others..

21st March 2010, 03:52 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	Yes, so do I. This blade is not Central Javanese work. I don't think I want to comment further in this matter. I have stated my opinion. It is of no moment to me if my opinion is accepted or not, and I am unable to alter my opinion in the physical absence of the keris itself. I've already given a lot of my time to this thread, and the thread as it has developed has diverged into matters that really do not interest me in even the slightest degree.