Could the closed Greek helmet kill a warrior?

Aqtai · 26th May 2005, 11:33 AM

I'm not suggesting Western European plate armour is descended from Islamic armours, however I do believe that Islamic armour had a strong influence on the development of European armour. I also believe that the brigandine or 'pair of plates' originated in the Near East and was taken back to Europe by the crusaders. I also think that the basinet with its mail camail is descended from 13th century Islamic helmets that had mail camails.

Although it has to be said that there is another contender for the ancestry of the bascinet. Early basinets have a more conical shape and the visor is attached by a single hinge in the middle of the forehead. This bears a resemblance to the "Kipchaq" helmets worn in Russia and Central Asia in the 10th-13th centuries. This is my own little theory, please feel free to totally disregard it.

With regards to mail, there is very little doubt that it was invented by the Celts, adopted by the Romans who in Turn passed it on the Iranians. However I believe it was the Iranians, specifically the Parthians, who added longer sleeves and skirts to mail shirts. I have also read, please don't ask me where because I can't remember, that it is possible that the Ancient Assyrians invented mail. As far as know there is no evidence for this beyond the fact that the Assyrians were making very fine Iron helmets in the 7th century, and reliefs from the palace of king Ashurbanipal, now in the British Museum, which show Assyrian soldiers wearing some kind of long armoured coat reaching to the knees or ankles with elbow length sleeves and a coif of some kind attached to the helmet. This armour is usually described as being scale or lamellar. But the 'cut' bears a striking resemblance to mail.

Please excuse the atrocious quality of these pictures:

Helmet no. 3 above is the type I'm referring to. You can't see it in the pic, but there is a hinge in the middle of the forehead connecting the visor to the skull.

I'm aware I've gone way off topic here, so I'll put in this pic:

Helmets of this type were the most popular helmet in ancient Greece for about 300 years. If they had been so dangerous, they would not have used. Another point, they were only worn in battle, when not fighting hoplites would push them up to the top of their heads.

26th May 2005, 11:33 AM	#19
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	I'm not suggesting Western European plate armour is descended from Islamic armours, however I do believe that Islamic armour had a strong influence on the development of European armour. I also believe that the brigandine or 'pair of plates' originated in the Near East and was taken back to Europe by the crusaders. I also think that the basinet with its mail camail is descended from 13th century Islamic helmets that had mail camails. Although it has to be said that there is another contender for the ancestry of the bascinet. Early basinets have a more conical shape and the visor is attached by a single hinge in the middle of the forehead. This bears a resemblance to the "Kipchaq" helmets worn in Russia and Central Asia in the 10th-13th centuries. This is my own little theory, please feel free to totally disregard it. With regards to mail, there is very little doubt that it was invented by the Celts, adopted by the Romans who in Turn passed it on the Iranians. However I believe it was the Iranians, specifically the Parthians, who added longer sleeves and skirts to mail shirts. I have also read, please don't ask me where because I can't remember, that it is possible that the Ancient Assyrians invented mail. As far as know there is no evidence for this beyond the fact that the Assyrians were making very fine Iron helmets in the 7th century, and reliefs from the palace of king Ashurbanipal, now in the British Museum, which show Assyrian soldiers wearing some kind of long armoured coat reaching to the knees or ankles with elbow length sleeves and a coif of some kind attached to the helmet. This armour is usually described as being scale or lamellar. But the 'cut' bears a striking resemblance to mail. Please excuse the atrocious quality of these pictures: Helmet no. 3 above is the type I'm referring to. You can't see it in the pic, but there is a hinge in the middle of the forehead connecting the visor to the skull. I'm aware I've gone way off topic here, so I'll put in this pic: Helmets of this type were the most popular helmet in ancient Greece for about 300 years. If they had been so dangerous, they would not have used. Another point, they were only worn in battle, when not fighting hoplites would push them up to the top of their heads.