Basket hilted swords

Rikkn · 24th February 2010, 11:48 PM

Here is one for you Cathey

..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

Rikkn · 26th February 2010, 01:51 PM

Added picture - didn't work first time.

Rikkn · 26th February 2010, 01:52 PM

Trying again.....

Cathey · 27th February 2010, 04:11 AM

Hi Rikkn

Appears to be a copy of an early swept hilt rapier, not a basket hilt.

Cheers Cathey

Jim McDougall · 27th February 2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikkn

Here is one for you Cathey

..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

Hey man, who can remember the 60's!!!???

Really though, gotta love the drapery rod quillon terminals.
Thanks Rikkn,

All the best,
Jim

celtan · 27th February 2010, 02:08 PM

Yep. Gotta remember the cool, leather clad Emma Peel...

Hey, kids got memories too!

: )

BTW, the lasso-guard sword looks too nicely designed for such an uninspiring crossguard/quillions.

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hey man, who can remember the 60's!!!???

Really though, gotta love the drapery rod quillon terminals.
Thanks Rikkn,

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 27th February 2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celtan

... BTW, the lasso-guard sword looks too nicely designed for such an uninspiring crossguard/quillions...

En absoluto

.

Jim McDougall · 27th February 2010, 05:32 PM

Well observed Manolo and Nando!
Good example of a rapier fabricated 'by the numbers'!!! and as Cathey notes, not a basket hilt......which would have followed different blueprints .

And yeah, I can see Emma Peel vaguely through the purple haze!!!

All the best,
Jim

Mark Deyer · 5th February 2014, 04:10 PM

Hi,
Here,s my contribution a 1731 dated one recently picked up from the family any info on it would be helpful.the inside of the cross gaurd is coverd in a black pitch type material and it is evident that it once covered the out side of the hilt as well the all is original,only thing ever done to it it has a old tape repair to the bottom of the scabbard.
Thanks Mark

Jim McDougall · 5th February 2014, 06:43 PM

Mark, this is an absolutely magnificent example of a mid 18th century British dragoon basket hilt! Welcome to the forum, and thank you so much not only for the grand entrance with this beauty! but for reviving this fascinating old thread.

The late Anthony Darling wrote his venerable article on these, "The British Basket Hilted Cavalry Sword" in 1974 ("Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting" Vol 7, #3) and on p.86 (fig 7 group) is one which is remarkably similar to yours. This is regarded as an Anglo-Irish hilt type with a horizontal bar bisecting the arms of the basket, and these are believed to have been English made. The absence of the looping bars at the base of the basket seem another indicator of this classification.

Dr. Cyril Mazansky , "British Basket Hilted Cavalry Swords" (2005) classifies the pommel type as 'tall bun' (type IID) and on p75, the group of hilts in F1 seem to follow closely the basic design. These are again English dragoon hilts.

Darling (op.cit.) notes that while many of these dragon hilts were made in London and Birmingham, some were also produced in Glasgow and Stirling, which were garrison towns. The ring around the base of the pommel seems to suggest mid 18th around 1750s, and most examples of this period have this feature. It is noted that the British dragoon hilts were quite sturdier than the Scottish hilts, and of course plain without piercings and other motif.

I am not sure on the '45' which seems scratched into the scabbard throat. It does not seem to correspond to regimental numerals often seen (i.e. 42 was the Black Watch, 42nd Foot). Darling indicates this particular type hilt as seen on yours is in his opinion one the finest forms of these dragoon hilts, and these were apparently associated with the 6th Inniskillings (Heavy dragoons).

May we know more on the blade, length, any markings please . How is the 1731 date attributed?

Fantastic piece!!!!

All best regards,
Jim

27th February 2010, 04:11 AM	#4
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Definitely a Prop Hi Rikkn Appears to be a copy of an early swept hilt rapier, not a basket hilt. Cheers Cathey

5th February 2014, 04:10 PM	#9
Mark Deyer Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 5	British Basket Hilt Hi, Here,s my contribution a 1731 dated one recently picked up from the family any info on it would be helpful.the inside of the cross gaurd is coverd in a black pitch type material and it is evident that it once covered the out side of the hilt as well the all is original,only thing ever done to it it has a old tape repair to the bottom of the scabbard. Thanks Mark Attached Images

24th February 2010, 11:48 PM	#1
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	Here is one for you Cathey ..... This one was a prop for the 60's British T.V. series " The Avenger " ( hung on the wall of John Steeds office ).

26th February 2010, 01:51 PM	#2
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	Added picture - didn't work first time.

26th February 2010, 01:52 PM	#3
Rikkn Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond by the Sea, Fl Posts: 50	picture Trying again..... Attached Images

27th February 2010, 05:32 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Well observed Manolo and Nando! Good example of a rapier fabricated 'by the numbers'!!! and as Cathey notes, not a basket hilt......which would have followed different blueprints . And yeah, I can see Emma Peel vaguely through the purple haze!!! All the best, Jim

5th February 2014, 06:43 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,585	Mark, this is an absolutely magnificent example of a mid 18th century British dragoon basket hilt! Welcome to the forum, and thank you so much not only for the grand entrance with this beauty! but for reviving this fascinating old thread. The late Anthony Darling wrote his venerable article on these, "The British Basket Hilted Cavalry Sword" in 1974 ("Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting" Vol 7, #3) and on p.86 (fig 7 group) is one which is remarkably similar to yours. This is regarded as an Anglo-Irish hilt type with a horizontal bar bisecting the arms of the basket, and these are believed to have been English made. The absence of the looping bars at the base of the basket seem another indicator of this classification. Dr. Cyril Mazansky , "British Basket Hilted Cavalry Swords" (2005) classifies the pommel type as 'tall bun' (type IID) and on p75, the group of hilts in F1 seem to follow closely the basic design. These are again English dragoon hilts. Darling (op.cit.) notes that while many of these dragon hilts were made in London and Birmingham, some were also produced in Glasgow and Stirling, which were garrison towns. The ring around the base of the pommel seems to suggest mid 18th around 1750s, and most examples of this period have this feature. It is noted that the British dragoon hilts were quite sturdier than the Scottish hilts, and of course plain without piercings and other motif. I am not sure on the '45' which seems scratched into the scabbard throat. It does not seem to correspond to regimental numerals often seen (i.e. 42 was the Black Watch, 42nd Foot). Darling indicates this particular type hilt as seen on yours is in his opinion one the finest forms of these dragoon hilts, and these were apparently associated with the 6th Inniskillings (Heavy dragoons). May we know more on the blade, length, any markings please . How is the 1731 date attributed? Fantastic piece!!!! All best regards, Jim