Mysterious shord sword - kama

buendia · 18th February 2010, 04:45 AM

This kama (qama ?) is supposedly Persian/Iranian, but I don`t know how old is it and what`s on the maker`s mark. There are identical inscription on both sides. The lengh is 48cm (19 inches). What is the proper position to look at this mark - hilt directed downward? I would be very grateful for any comments.
[IMG]

[/IMG]
[IMG]

[/IMG]

ward · 19th February 2010, 03:51 AM

Nothing Persian about it, south Caucasus. If you post a closeup of the cartouche it would be easier. But its probably Georgian or Aramenian

buendia · 20th February 2010, 01:04 AM

I hope you meant the sheath by cartotuche...

[IMG]

[/IMG]
[IMG]

[/IMG]
I have one georgian kindjal of similar lenght and it`s very different from this one. What kind of script is on the mark?

Norman McCormick · 20th February 2010, 02:52 PM

Hi Buendia,
Cartouche.
Regards,
Norman.

ward · 20th February 2010, 08:14 PM

Pretty sure its Georgian, native speak can confirm it

buendia · 21st February 2010, 02:14 AM

Thank you very much for your information. I was really convinced of its Persian origin.
I have checked both georgian and armenian alphabets -
looking at the cartouche placed in this position:

the cartouche would yield the armenian letters YKB or possibly YLB. The letter in the middle was not 100% identical with contemporary letters.

In georgian alphabet the first letter would be identified as V, but I was not able to identify the rest 2 letters.

What could these letters mean?
Initials of the maker?

buendia · 25th February 2010, 01:45 PM

Since it comes from Caucasus shouldn`t it be called kindjal instead of kama?

ariel · 26th February 2010, 03:38 AM

Well, not exactly :-)
In Georgia and most of Daghestan it is Khanjali ( with minor variations).
In Chechnya/Ingushetiya it is Shalta
In Chircassia and Ossetia it is Kama
There are smaller nationalities as well, and there it varies between Shalta and Kama.

I do not know what it is called in Armenian

ward · 26th February 2010, 04:08 AM

I do not know what it is called in Armenian[/QUOTE]

I heard "khanjul" but there are different dialects

18th February 2010, 04:45 AM	#1
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Mysterious shord sword - kama This kama (qama ?) is supposedly Persian/Iranian, but I don`t know how old is it and what`s on the maker`s mark. There are identical inscription on both sides. The lengh is 48cm (19 inches). What is the proper position to look at this mark - hilt directed downward? I would be very grateful for any comments. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] Last edited by buendia; 18th February 2010 at 06:05 AM.

20th February 2010, 01:04 AM	#3
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	I hope you meant the sheath by cartotuche... [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG] I have one georgian kindjal of similar lenght and it`s very different from this one. What kind of script is on the mark? Last edited by buendia; 20th February 2010 at 01:18 AM.

20th February 2010, 02:52 PM	#4
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,598	Hi Buendia, Cartouche. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

19th February 2010, 03:51 AM	#2
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Nothing Persian about it, south Caucasus. If you post a closeup of the cartouche it would be easier. But its probably Georgian or Aramenian

20th February 2010, 08:14 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Pretty sure its Georgian, native speak can confirm it

21st February 2010, 02:14 AM	#6
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Thank you very much for your information. I was really convinced of its Persian origin. I have checked both georgian and armenian alphabets - looking at the cartouche placed in this position: the cartouche would yield the armenian letters YKB or possibly YLB. The letter in the middle was not 100% identical with contemporary letters. In georgian alphabet the first letter would be identified as V, but I was not able to identify the rest 2 letters. What could these letters mean? Initials of the maker?

25th February 2010, 01:45 PM	#7
buendia Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Silesia, Poland Posts: 41	Since it comes from Caucasus shouldn`t it be called kindjal instead of kama?

26th February 2010, 03:38 AM	#8
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Well, not exactly :-) In Georgia and most of Daghestan it is Khanjali ( with minor variations). In Chechnya/Ingushetiya it is Shalta In Chircassia and Ossetia it is Kama There are smaller nationalities as well, and there it varies between Shalta and Kama. I do not know what it is called in Armenian

26th February 2010, 04:08 AM	#9
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I do not know what it is called in Armenian[/QUOTE] I heard "khanjul" but there are different dialects