CARVING VARIATIONS ON OCEANIC CLUBS

VANDOO · 19th February 2010, 07:38 PM

MOST OF THE EARLY FIJI CLUBS HAD SIMPLE CARVING STYLES AND WERE NOT FULLY CARVED. THE LATER TONGAN CLUBS AND THOSE INFLUENCED BY TONGANS WERE MORE FULLY CARVED AND THE CARVING MORE INTRICATE AND VARIED. JUDGEING FROM THE CLUBS I HAVE SEEN AND HANDLED THE OLDEST ONES HAD LESS CARVEING AND WERE OF THE MORE SIMPLE DESIGNS. I SUSPECT MANY OF THESE HAD FIBER OR CORD WRAPPING ON THE SHAFTS THAT HAS DETEORIATED AND BEEN LOST. ON SOME YOU CAN SEE MARKS OR DIFFERENCES IN THE PATINA WHERE THE WRAPPING ONCE WAS.
WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE AND TRADE ESTABLISHED IT WAS FOUND THE EXPLORERS AND WHALERS AND SUCH WOULD RATHER TRADE FOR THE MORE FULLY CARVED CLUBS INSTEAD OF THE MORE SIMPLE TRADITIONAL ONES.
LATER WHEN WARFARE AND CANNIBALISM HAD BEEN ENDED CLUBS BECAME MORE OF AN ITEM FOR CEREMONY OR PRESTIEGE AND THE FANCIER THE BETTER. THE ENVIORMENT IN THE ISLANDS WAS VERY DESTRUCTIVE OF WOODEN AND FIBER IMPLEMENTS AND WHEN THEY WERE LEFT TO SET IN A SHED OR CORNER OF A HUT UNUSED FOR VERY LONG THEY DIDN'T LAST LONG. WHITE ANTS (TERMITES) COULD DESTROY THEM IN SHORT ORDER AND FUNGUS OR MOLD SLOWER BUT JUST AS SURELY.
PICTURES, TOP TWO FIJI BOWAI CLUB,
NEXT TWO FIJI ROOTSTOCK CLUB
ULA THROWING CLUB, TONGAN INFLUENCE
LAST TWO FULLY CARVED TONGAN BOWAI FORM CLUB

Tim Simmons · 19th February 2010, 08:08 PM

We know of the Samoan Nifo oti. All the pictures I have are of rather plain but large things with a fully European made blade.
What about this, some what different. The handle is decorated in the style similar to all the Islands mentioned. The blade has been ground on stone for the main forming. The curl must of been done with the use of heat but I do not think we are looking at work from a forge or similar level of heat. The zigzag decorated piece around the top of the handle is an open ring bent around the wood . There is no join ether forge welded, braised or soldered.

Tim Simmons · 19th February 2010, 08:29 PM

With regard to the latter carved clubs from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. I have read art historians discuss them in terms of decadence and corruption but they still look jolly lovely to me. Also not rare but try a buy one!!!!!

VANDOO · 19th February 2010, 11:27 PM

UNFORTUNATELY THE MAJORITY OF CLUBS YOU SEE FOR SALE TODAY ARE 1950'S TO THE PRESENT. EVEN WORSE IS THEY OFTEN GO FOR A HIGH PRICE ON EBAY

. YOU DO SEE A GOOD OLD ONE FROM THE TIMES WHEN THEY WERE STILL A WEAPON BUT THEY ARE RARE.
THE CLUB YOU PICTURED IS ATTRIBUTED TO NEW CALADONIA AND IN THE OLD DAYS THAT PARTICULAR STIPPLED DESIGN YOU HAVE ON YOURS WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH RATS TEETH. THEY ARE OFTEN REFFERED TO AS MUSHROOM OR PHALLIC CLUBS I THINK THE LATTER IS MORE LIKELY AS OCEANIC SOCIETYS ALL BELIEVED IN FERTILITY AND LOTS OF CHILDREN. (ITS A NICE ONE

)
THE PICTURES OF THE CLUBS I POSTED ABOVE IN THE LAST POST ARE CONSISTANT OF ONE OF THE OLDER FORMS OF BUTT (HANDLE END) ON THE FIJI CLUBS. THE OTHER COMMON FORM ON THE OLD ONES IS MORE PHALLIC. SEE ONE EXAMPLE PHALLIC AND ONE EXAMPLE OLD TOTIKA OR PINAPPLE CLUB NOTE SENNET WRAPPED HANDLE. AND ONE NEW TONGAN STYLE ULA HANDLE. AND ONE PRE 1850 EXAMPLE OF THE FIJIAN TAVA TAVA DESIGN.
THE POLE ARM YOU PICTURED IS UNUSUAL IT REMINDS ME OF SOME SORT OF MAK BLADE WITH AN OCEANIC HANDLE. APPEARS TO HAVE A LOT OF AGE AND WEAR IF IT ONLY COULD TALK.

I HOPE THE FREE ADVERTIZEMENT FOR THE DEALER DOSEN'T BREAK ANY RULES. I HAVE HAD IT FOR QUITE A WHILE SO ITS NOT A RECENT ITEM FOR SALE AND I DON'T HAVE SOFTWARE TO CROP PICTURES ANYMORE SO ITS THE BEST I CAN DO.

fearn · 20th February 2010, 12:19 AM

There is at least two books on the old club types. I'm looking for my (photo)copies at the moment.

A few comments:
--woodwork tends to be distinctive by island, so long as the people making the clubs aren't reading the same books we are.
--When a club is made with metal tools, the lines tend to be simpler and rounder. We're not likely to see many clubs made with stone, bone, or shell tools, but the decorations are different and distinctive.
--Iron reached the pacific a long time ago, and many clubs were made for the tourist trade, even back in the 1850s.

Fun topic. Thanks Vandoo!

F

VANDOO · 20th February 2010, 03:31 AM

THERE ARE SOME OLD CLUBS MOSTLY IN MUSEUM COLLECTIONS THAT STILL HAVE THE FIBER WRAPPING ON THE HANDLES. THE FIBER BECOMES DRY AND BRITTLE SO MOST OLD EXAMPLES HAVE LOST IT LONG AGO. I THINK MANY OF THE OLDER KIAKAVO (WRONGLY CALLED GUNSTOCK CLUBS) HAD WRAPPINGS OF EITHER SENNET (CORD MADE FROM COCONUT FIBERS) CORD MADE FROM HUMAN HAIR WAS ALSO USED. OR WOVEN FIBER MADE FROM PALM OR PANDANUS LEAVES OFTEN WITH COLORS AND PATTERNS. THE VUNIKAU (ROOTSTOCK CLUBS) ALSO HAD SENNET CORD WRAPPINGS ON THEIR SHAFTS. LESS COMMONLY CORD WRAP COULD BE FOUND ON TOTOKIA (WRONGLY CALLED PINEAPPLE CLUBS) AND CULACULA (PADDLE CLUBS FOUND IN FIJI BUT THOUGHT TO BE OF TONGAN OR SAMOAN ORIGIN)
THERE ARE MANY DRAWINGS IN "FIJIAN WEAPONS & WARFARE" BY FERGUS CLUNIE.
ANOTHER GOOD SOURCE DEALING WITH ALL OCEANIC CLUBS IS " ETHNOGRAPHICAL ALBUM OF THE PACIFIC ISLANDS" BY EDGE PARTINGTON

THERE ARE TWO PICTURES OF A FIJI TOTIKA WITH BOTH SENNET AND HUMAN HAIR CORD.
THERE IS ONE PICTURE OF TWO PADDLE TYPE CLUBS FROM THE SOLOMON ISLANDS WITH DECORATIVE FIBER WRAPS.

Tim Simmons · 20th February 2010, 09:58 AM

Decadence or a flowering of traditional arts? A mastery of the new carving tools? Even as a non-expert I think it is possible to recognise in many old pieces a decline in artistry. This picture is from "Pacific Encounters- Art & Divinity in Polynesia 1760-1860" British Museum Press {a must have}. It is not too expensive and I think is still available from amazon.UK. Perhaps this could be seen as decadent over even earlier forms, bearing in mind metal tools could well have been in the hands of court artists from at least the very early 1700s.

fearn · 20th February 2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

We know of the Samoan Nifo oti. All the pictures I have are of rather plain but large things with a fully European made blade.
What about this, some what different. The handle is decorated in the style similar to all the Islands mentioned. The blade has been ground on stone for the main forming. The curl must of been done with the use of heat but I do not think we are looking at work from a forge or similar level of heat. The zigzag decorated piece around the top of the handle is an open ring bent around the wood . There is no join ether forge welded, braised or soldered.

Hi Tim,

Somewhere I read that the curl (properly the "tooth" of the "death tooth" which is what Nifo oti means), came from the blade itself. Basically, they would take a machete/bush knife, cut off the end of the knife, and the weld that end on top to make the tooth.

These blades are still made: they are the "fire knives" you see used in Hula demonstrations, and I think there is an annual contest in Samoa of fire knife twirling. If you google fire knife, you'll see what the modern ones look like.

Best,

F

VANDOO · 20th February 2010, 07:08 PM

THE EARLY WAR CLUBS WERE CARVED USING SHELL, BONE AND CORAL AND STONE WHERE AVAILABLE. THEIR CONSTRUCTION WAS A SLOW AND DIFFICULT TASK SO THEY WERE CARVED MOSTLY FOR DESIGN AND FUNCTION. THIS BEING THE CASE DECORATION WOULD HAVE BEEN HELD TO A MINIMUM AND PROBABLY SERVED TO HELP THE GRIP AND PERHAPS FOR SOME TAILSMANIC PROPERTYS. MARKS AND DESIGNS COULD HAVE BEEN ADDED LATER AS A WARRIORS STATUS GREW DENOTING KILLS AND VICTORIES. PERHAPS SOME CARVING WOULD HAVE DENOTED AN ACE BASED ON HIS NUMBER OF KILLS.

HUMAN TEETH WERE SOMETIMES INSET IN CLUBS FROM FIJI, I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT PRACTICE ON OTHER ISLAND GROUPS WEAPONS.

THERE WERE NO DOUBT SOME CEREMONIAL CLUBS OR THOSE CARRIED BY HIGH CHIEFS OR ALEEHE THAT WERE MORE FULLY CARVED. THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN STATUS SYMBOLS AND NO DOUBT WERE ATTRIBUTED TO HAVE MAGIC POWERS (MANNA) WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE AND METAL TOOLS ARRIVED IT MADE MAKEING AND CARVEING WEAPONS MUCH EASIER AND FASTER SO MORE DESIGNS COULD BE EASILY ADDED. THERE WOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN MORE OUTSIDE INFLUENCE FROM OTHER ISLANDS AS WELL AS FROM EUROPE. PATTERNS WERE NO DOUBT COPIED FROM WEAPONS AND TEXTILES AS WELL AS ACTUAL OBJECTS SUCH AS SHIPS AND PEOPLE.
AT THAT POINT I WOULD SAY IT WAS THE GOLDEN AGE OF CARVEING AND THE MOST INTRICATE AND ARTISTIC EXAMPLES WERE MADE. THEY MAY HAVE NOT BEEN AS TRADITIONAL AS THE OLDER WEAPONS BUT AS FOR ART AND WORKMANSHIP WERE THE BEST. OVER THE YEARS IT WOULD HAVE DEGRADED WHEN CARVERS SAW THEY COULD SELL A INFERIOR EXAMPLE WHICH TOOK A FRACTION OF THE TIME AND WORK TO MAKE FOR AS MUCH AS A MASTERPIECE.
THERE IS A RECENT BOOK OUT ON THE SAMOAN FIRE KNIFE. IT HAS SOME HISTORY BUT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE SAMOAN WHO MADE THE FIRE KNIFE DANCE A POPULAR PART OF ALL POLYNESIAN SHOWS.

TWO PICTURES OF A TONGAN STYLE CLUB WITH HUMAN FIGURE
ONE PIC OF RECENT FIJI CLUB WITH SENNET CORD BINDING ( NOTE THE SHAFT IS CARVED IN AS A SQUARE SHAFT NOT ROUND AS IS PROPER)

Tim Simmons · 20th February 2010, 07:45 PM

I have googled "fire dance knife"
I do not want too wander too far from clubs but thought I should show some pictures of this blade. The handle does have the same more restrained banded decoration seen on some Somoan clubs. The blade is very sharp indeed 17cm long not big, why so sharp? As I said I feel the blade has been stone ground from a machete or other European blade, you can all make up your own minds on that.

Tim Simmons · 20th February 2010, 08:11 PM

Early 20th century Samoan club with decoration showing clear decadence and decline. However I think it has been used, there is a weight forward bias to one edge rather like a Moro Kris. It is this side that carries most damage and signs of use. The carved form is basic function 63cm long. I do not know what makes the lime inset pink.

fearn · 21st February 2010, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

I have googled "fire dance knife"
I do not want too wander too far from clubs but thought I should show some pictures of this blade. The handle does have the same more restrained banded decoration seen on some Somoan clubs. The blade is very sharp indeed 17cm long not big, why so sharp? As I said I feel the blade has been stone ground from a machete or other European blade, you can all make up your own minds on that.

Hi Tim,

The tie-in of interest is that, with the fire knife, we have a traditional blade that is a direct and known descendent of a club, the nifo oti. Offhand, I can't think of another good example of that. The interesting part was that the first knives were, I believe, made as copies of the clubs by an English firm for export, and the islanders subsequently learned how to manufacture their own.

But you're right. Back to the clubs!

Best,

F

laEspadaAncha · 22nd February 2010, 05:51 AM

Here's an Australian Aboriginal example acquired in the '70s (along with a shield, a woomera, and a penalty spear) from an antique store in Melbourne. The club measures about 27 1/2 inches in length.

The carving is limited to a diagonal cross-hatched pattern on the grip-end that seems more functional than decorative, and two sets of carved rings (visible in the second photo). There is a pitch covering of some sort covering the grip-end that reminds me of the tar pitch used to seal an Apache water tus.

Not nearly as visually appealing as the stunning examples shown in this thread - by comparison, a veritable "ugly stick."

19th February 2010, 07:38 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	MOST OF THE EARLY FIJI CLUBS HAD SIMPLE CARVING STYLES AND WERE NOT FULLY CARVED. THE LATER TONGAN CLUBS AND THOSE INFLUENCED BY TONGANS WERE MORE FULLY CARVED AND THE CARVING MORE INTRICATE AND VARIED. JUDGEING FROM THE CLUBS I HAVE SEEN AND HANDLED THE OLDEST ONES HAD LESS CARVEING AND WERE OF THE MORE SIMPLE DESIGNS. I SUSPECT MANY OF THESE HAD FIBER OR CORD WRAPPING ON THE SHAFTS THAT HAS DETEORIATED AND BEEN LOST. ON SOME YOU CAN SEE MARKS OR DIFFERENCES IN THE PATINA WHERE THE WRAPPING ONCE WAS. WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE AND TRADE ESTABLISHED IT WAS FOUND THE EXPLORERS AND WHALERS AND SUCH WOULD RATHER TRADE FOR THE MORE FULLY CARVED CLUBS INSTEAD OF THE MORE SIMPLE TRADITIONAL ONES. LATER WHEN WARFARE AND CANNIBALISM HAD BEEN ENDED CLUBS BECAME MORE OF AN ITEM FOR CEREMONY OR PRESTIEGE AND THE FANCIER THE BETTER. THE ENVIORMENT IN THE ISLANDS WAS VERY DESTRUCTIVE OF WOODEN AND FIBER IMPLEMENTS AND WHEN THEY WERE LEFT TO SET IN A SHED OR CORNER OF A HUT UNUSED FOR VERY LONG THEY DIDN'T LAST LONG. WHITE ANTS (TERMITES) COULD DESTROY THEM IN SHORT ORDER AND FUNGUS OR MOLD SLOWER BUT JUST AS SURELY. PICTURES, TOP TWO FIJI BOWAI CLUB, NEXT TWO FIJI ROOTSTOCK CLUB ULA THROWING CLUB, TONGAN INFLUENCE LAST TWO FULLY CARVED TONGAN BOWAI FORM CLUB Attached Images

19th February 2010, 08:08 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	We know of the Samoan Nifo oti. All the pictures I have are of rather plain but large things with a fully European made blade. What about this, some what different. The handle is decorated in the style similar to all the Islands mentioned. The blade has been ground on stone for the main forming. The curl must of been done with the use of heat but I do not think we are looking at work from a forge or similar level of heat. The zigzag decorated piece around the top of the handle is an open ring bent around the wood . There is no join ether forge welded, braised or soldered. Attached Images

19th February 2010, 11:27 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	UNFORTUNATELY THE MAJORITY OF CLUBS YOU SEE FOR SALE TODAY ARE 1950'S TO THE PRESENT. EVEN WORSE IS THEY OFTEN GO FOR A HIGH PRICE ON EBAY . YOU DO SEE A GOOD OLD ONE FROM THE TIMES WHEN THEY WERE STILL A WEAPON BUT THEY ARE RARE. THE CLUB YOU PICTURED IS ATTRIBUTED TO NEW CALADONIA AND IN THE OLD DAYS THAT PARTICULAR STIPPLED DESIGN YOU HAVE ON YOURS WAS SAID TO HAVE BEEN CUT WITH RATS TEETH. THEY ARE OFTEN REFFERED TO AS MUSHROOM OR PHALLIC CLUBS I THINK THE LATTER IS MORE LIKELY AS OCEANIC SOCIETYS ALL BELIEVED IN FERTILITY AND LOTS OF CHILDREN. (ITS A NICE ONE ) THE PICTURES OF THE CLUBS I POSTED ABOVE IN THE LAST POST ARE CONSISTANT OF ONE OF THE OLDER FORMS OF BUTT (HANDLE END) ON THE FIJI CLUBS. THE OTHER COMMON FORM ON THE OLD ONES IS MORE PHALLIC. SEE ONE EXAMPLE PHALLIC AND ONE EXAMPLE OLD TOTIKA OR PINAPPLE CLUB NOTE SENNET WRAPPED HANDLE. AND ONE NEW TONGAN STYLE ULA HANDLE. AND ONE PRE 1850 EXAMPLE OF THE FIJIAN TAVA TAVA DESIGN. THE POLE ARM YOU PICTURED IS UNUSUAL IT REMINDS ME OF SOME SORT OF MAK BLADE WITH AN OCEANIC HANDLE. APPEARS TO HAVE A LOT OF AGE AND WEAR IF IT ONLY COULD TALK. I HOPE THE FREE ADVERTIZEMENT FOR THE DEALER DOSEN'T BREAK ANY RULES. I HAVE HAD IT FOR QUITE A WHILE SO ITS NOT A RECENT ITEM FOR SALE AND I DON'T HAVE SOFTWARE TO CROP PICTURES ANYMORE SO ITS THE BEST I CAN DO. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 19th February 2010 at 11:41 PM.

20th February 2010, 03:31 AM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE ARE SOME OLD CLUBS MOSTLY IN MUSEUM COLLECTIONS THAT STILL HAVE THE FIBER WRAPPING ON THE HANDLES. THE FIBER BECOMES DRY AND BRITTLE SO MOST OLD EXAMPLES HAVE LOST IT LONG AGO. I THINK MANY OF THE OLDER KIAKAVO (WRONGLY CALLED GUNSTOCK CLUBS) HAD WRAPPINGS OF EITHER SENNET (CORD MADE FROM COCONUT FIBERS) CORD MADE FROM HUMAN HAIR WAS ALSO USED. OR WOVEN FIBER MADE FROM PALM OR PANDANUS LEAVES OFTEN WITH COLORS AND PATTERNS. THE VUNIKAU (ROOTSTOCK CLUBS) ALSO HAD SENNET CORD WRAPPINGS ON THEIR SHAFTS. LESS COMMONLY CORD WRAP COULD BE FOUND ON TOTOKIA (WRONGLY CALLED PINEAPPLE CLUBS) AND CULACULA (PADDLE CLUBS FOUND IN FIJI BUT THOUGHT TO BE OF TONGAN OR SAMOAN ORIGIN) THERE ARE MANY DRAWINGS IN "FIJIAN WEAPONS & WARFARE" BY FERGUS CLUNIE. ANOTHER GOOD SOURCE DEALING WITH ALL OCEANIC CLUBS IS " ETHNOGRAPHICAL ALBUM OF THE PACIFIC ISLANDS" BY EDGE PARTINGTON THERE ARE TWO PICTURES OF A FIJI TOTIKA WITH BOTH SENNET AND HUMAN HAIR CORD. THERE IS ONE PICTURE OF TWO PADDLE TYPE CLUBS FROM THE SOLOMON ISLANDS WITH DECORATIVE FIBER WRAPS. Attached Images

20th February 2010, 09:58 AM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Decadence or a flowering of traditional arts? A mastery of the new carving tools? Even as a non-expert I think it is possible to recognise in many old pieces a decline in artistry. This picture is from "Pacific Encounters- Art & Divinity in Polynesia 1760-1860" British Museum Press {a must have}. It is not too expensive and I think is still available from amazon.UK. Perhaps this could be seen as decadent over even earlier forms, bearing in mind metal tools could well have been in the hands of court artists from at least the very early 1700s. Attached Images

19th February 2010, 08:29 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	With regard to the latter carved clubs from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. I have read art historians discuss them in terms of decadence and corruption but they still look jolly lovely to me. Also not rare but try a buy one!!!!!

20th February 2010, 12:19 AM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	There is at least two books on the old club types. I'm looking for my (photo)copies at the moment. A few comments: --woodwork tends to be distinctive by island, so long as the people making the clubs aren't reading the same books we are. --When a club is made with metal tools, the lines tend to be simpler and rounder. We're not likely to see many clubs made with stone, bone, or shell tools, but the decorations are different and distinctive. --Iron reached the pacific a long time ago, and many clubs were made for the tourist trade, even back in the 1850s. Fun topic. Thanks Vandoo! F

20th February 2010, 07:08 PM	#9
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE EARLY WAR CLUBS WERE CARVED USING SHELL, BONE AND CORAL AND STONE WHERE AVAILABLE. THEIR CONSTRUCTION WAS A SLOW AND DIFFICULT TASK SO THEY WERE CARVED MOSTLY FOR DESIGN AND FUNCTION. THIS BEING THE CASE DECORATION WOULD HAVE BEEN HELD TO A MINIMUM AND PROBABLY SERVED TO HELP THE GRIP AND PERHAPS FOR SOME TAILSMANIC PROPERTYS. MARKS AND DESIGNS COULD HAVE BEEN ADDED LATER AS A WARRIORS STATUS GREW DENOTING KILLS AND VICTORIES. PERHAPS SOME CARVING WOULD HAVE DENOTED AN ACE BASED ON HIS NUMBER OF KILLS. HUMAN TEETH WERE SOMETIMES INSET IN CLUBS FROM FIJI, I AM NOT AWARE OF THAT PRACTICE ON OTHER ISLAND GROUPS WEAPONS. THERE WERE NO DOUBT SOME CEREMONIAL CLUBS OR THOSE CARRIED BY HIGH CHIEFS OR ALEEHE THAT WERE MORE FULLY CARVED. THESE WOULD HAVE BEEN STATUS SYMBOLS AND NO DOUBT WERE ATTRIBUTED TO HAVE MAGIC POWERS (MANNA) WHEN CONTACT WAS MADE AND METAL TOOLS ARRIVED IT MADE MAKEING AND CARVEING WEAPONS MUCH EASIER AND FASTER SO MORE DESIGNS COULD BE EASILY ADDED. THERE WOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN MORE OUTSIDE INFLUENCE FROM OTHER ISLANDS AS WELL AS FROM EUROPE. PATTERNS WERE NO DOUBT COPIED FROM WEAPONS AND TEXTILES AS WELL AS ACTUAL OBJECTS SUCH AS SHIPS AND PEOPLE. AT THAT POINT I WOULD SAY IT WAS THE GOLDEN AGE OF CARVEING AND THE MOST INTRICATE AND ARTISTIC EXAMPLES WERE MADE. THEY MAY HAVE NOT BEEN AS TRADITIONAL AS THE OLDER WEAPONS BUT AS FOR ART AND WORKMANSHIP WERE THE BEST. OVER THE YEARS IT WOULD HAVE DEGRADED WHEN CARVERS SAW THEY COULD SELL A INFERIOR EXAMPLE WHICH TOOK A FRACTION OF THE TIME AND WORK TO MAKE FOR AS MUCH AS A MASTERPIECE. THERE IS A RECENT BOOK OUT ON THE SAMOAN FIRE KNIFE. IT HAS SOME HISTORY BUT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE SAMOAN WHO MADE THE FIRE KNIFE DANCE A POPULAR PART OF ALL POLYNESIAN SHOWS. TWO PICTURES OF A TONGAN STYLE CLUB WITH HUMAN FIGURE ONE PIC OF RECENT FIJI CLUB WITH SENNET CORD BINDING ( NOTE THE SHAFT IS CARVED IN AS A SQUARE SHAFT NOT ROUND AS IS PROPER) Attached Images

20th February 2010, 07:45 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I have googled "fire dance knife" I do not want too wander too far from clubs but thought I should show some pictures of this blade. The handle does have the same more restrained banded decoration seen on some Somoan clubs. The blade is very sharp indeed 17cm long not big, why so sharp? As I said I feel the blade has been stone ground from a machete or other European blade, you can all make up your own minds on that. Attached Images

20th February 2010, 08:11 PM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Early 20th century Samoan club with decoration showing clear decadence and decline. However I think it has been used, there is a weight forward bias to one edge rather like a Moro Kris. It is this side that carries most damage and signs of use. The carved form is basic function 63cm long. I do not know what makes the lime inset pink. Attached Images

22nd February 2010, 05:51 AM	#13
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Here's an Australian Aboriginal example acquired in the '70s (along with a shield, a woomera, and a penalty spear) from an antique store in Melbourne. The club measures about 27 1/2 inches in length. The carving is limited to a diagonal cross-hatched pattern on the grip-end that seems more functional than decorative, and two sets of carved rings (visible in the second photo). There is a pitch covering of some sort covering the grip-end that reminds me of the tar pitch used to seal an Apache water tus. Not nearly as visually appealing as the stunning examples shown in this thread - by comparison, a veritable "ugly stick."