The visible part of gonjo when Keris sheathed

David · 30th January 2010, 01:58 AM

I could be wrong, bit AFAIK Gustav, the Bali keris you show an example of would be considered a bad fit. I believe that the Balinese tradition should have the gonjo flush to the top of the sheath.

Naga Sasra · 30th January 2010, 03:28 AM

I would certainly agree with David, the Bali keris shown as an example is indeed a bad fit.
The norm for Bali/Lombok is for the ganja to be flush to the top of the sheath.

Gustav · 30th January 2010, 11:13 AM

Blu Erf, thank you very much for your explanation and beautiful examples.

Sajen · 30th January 2010, 12:29 PM

Hello Kai Wee,

very nice keris you have shown there for explanation. But isn't the first keris you declare as Sumatran not with a Peninsula handle?

Detlef

BluErf · 30th January 2010, 12:53 PM

Hi Detlef,

That probably is a Riau jawa demam (I got it on a Riau Bugis blade). The S. Peninsula and Riau forms are very similar as the area was effectively under the Johore-Riau Sultanate for a period.

BluErf · 30th January 2010, 12:56 PM

I have a Lombok keris pedang with a ganja that sticks just a little bit above the sheath. Looking at the sheath, I thought it was the original sheath.

The black and white photo here shows the ganja parallel with the top of the wrangka. Perhaps it was intentional? Perhaps some fellow collectors from Bali/Lombok can help clarify?

Gustav · 30th January 2010, 02:10 PM

Yes, I also have a keris from Lombok, with an older carefully made sarung of not bad quality, which also sticks a little bit (like on the picture) out of the sheath.

I also hope, somebody can clarify this.

Sajen · 30th January 2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Hi Detlef,

That probably is a Riau jawa demam (I got it on a Riau Bugis blade). The S. Peninsula and Riau forms are very similar as the area was effectively under the Johore-Riau Sultanate for a period.

Thank you for clarification!

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2010, 09:45 AM

Until March of 2009 I had been of the opinion that Balinese blades were always fitted so that the top of the gonjo was dead level with the top of the wrongko.

In March I was told by a tukang wrongko in Bali, a man of very advanced years, that many of the old wrongkos were made so that the ganja did not completely enter. He had several examples of older keris that bore out what he had told me.

Back in the 1960's I bought a lot of Bali and Lombok keris from an antique dealer in Sydney, whose son was living in Bali running sailing tours around the islands. This son was sending antiques including keris back to his father. I bought most of the keris that he sent back to his father. These keris were in disgusting condition and required complete restoration. I recall that many of them had blades that sat proud of the top of the wrongko. I assumed that these blades were non-original to the wrongkos and in restoration I fitted them neatly to the wrongko.

In retrospect I believe that I erred in doing this and that those blades were fitted in the old fashion, with the ganja sitting proud of the wrongko.

30th January 2010, 01:58 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I could be wrong, bit AFAIK Gustav, the Bali keris you show an example of would be considered a bad fit. I believe that the Balinese tradition should have the gonjo flush to the top of the sheath.

30th January 2010, 03:28 AM	#2
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I would certainly agree with David, the Bali keris shown as an example is indeed a bad fit. The norm for Bali/Lombok is for the ganja to be flush to the top of the sheath.

30th January 2010, 11:13 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Blu Erf, thank you very much for your explanation and beautiful examples.

30th January 2010, 12:29 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hello Kai Wee, very nice keris you have shown there for explanation. But isn't the first keris you declare as Sumatran not with a Peninsula handle? Detlef

30th January 2010, 12:53 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Detlef, That probably is a Riau jawa demam (I got it on a Riau Bugis blade). The S. Peninsula and Riau forms are very similar as the area was effectively under the Johore-Riau Sultanate for a period.

30th January 2010, 12:56 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	I have a Lombok keris pedang with a ganja that sticks just a little bit above the sheath. Looking at the sheath, I thought it was the original sheath. The black and white photo here shows the ganja parallel with the top of the wrangka. Perhaps it was intentional? Perhaps some fellow collectors from Bali/Lombok can help clarify?

30th January 2010, 02:10 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Yes, I also have a keris from Lombok, with an older carefully made sarung of not bad quality, which also sticks a little bit (like on the picture) out of the sheath. I also hope, somebody can clarify this.

31st January 2010, 09:45 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Until March of 2009 I had been of the opinion that Balinese blades were always fitted so that the top of the gonjo was dead level with the top of the wrongko. In March I was told by a tukang wrongko in Bali, a man of very advanced years, that many of the old wrongkos were made so that the ganja did not completely enter. He had several examples of older keris that bore out what he had told me. Back in the 1960's I bought a lot of Bali and Lombok keris from an antique dealer in Sydney, whose son was living in Bali running sailing tours around the islands. This son was sending antiques including keris back to his father. I bought most of the keris that he sent back to his father. These keris were in disgusting condition and required complete restoration. I recall that many of them had blades that sat proud of the top of the wrongko. I assumed that these blades were non-original to the wrongkos and in restoration I fitted them neatly to the wrongko. In retrospect I believe that I erred in doing this and that those blades were fitted in the old fashion, with the ganja sitting proud of the wrongko.