Question in terminology

Dom · 13th January 2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... snip ...
In North Africa, the well known janbiyya with the lunette form pommel and distinct shaped blade is known as a koumyya, and indiginous to Morocco.
... snip ...

Hi Jim
koumiya it's the name for Morocco dagger, but the vernacular name inside this country is :
- "moose"
which means within other Middle-Eastern countries; razor ...

à +

Dom

Jim McDougall · 13th January 2010, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Jim
koumiya it's the name for Morocco dagger, but the vernacular name inside this country is :
- "moose"
which means within other Middle-Eastern; razor ...

à +

Dom

There ya go!!

Thats excellent Dom, and a great illustration of the vernacular terms in addition to terms used in reference.
Thanks very much , all the best,
Jim

Devadatta · 16th January 2010, 03:18 PM

Thanks a lot for your ansewr - it's very useful!

Jim McDougall · 16th January 2010, 04:53 PM

youre welcome! always glad to be useful

Devadatta · 17th January 2010, 10:30 AM

Dear Gentlemen, in order not to start a new topic I'd like to ask about "saifani" handle of Yemeni jambia, which is often mentioned in articles over this type of dagger. What does it look like? When I was in Yemen I saw a lot of diffirent handle-patterns, but which of them could be that very "saifani" I just forgot to ask. Manythanks in advance!

Jim McDougall · 17th January 2010, 07:24 PM

Devadatta,
The term saifani jambia simply refers to what is apparantly a very high grade janbiyya with emphasis on the hilt material, the most important component of these traditional daggers and status symbols.
These are tremendously expensive janbiyyas and thus typically owned by judges, prominant businessmen and merchants, as well as dignitaries, especially of the most revered Hashamite line.

There seem to be classification terms that refer mostly to the coloration of the horn used in these hilts:
saifani- the term for dull yellow lustre
saifani heart- as the color becomes clearer yellow
asadi- a saifani whose hilt becomes greenish yellow
zaraf- whitish yellow
albasali- white as white onion

It is unclear whether these colorations alter with age, or have to do with the traditions and beliefs that correspond to the rhino horn which is most highly sought for the hilts. The exorbitant costs involved are very much due to stringent laws emplaced with rhino horn, and the very illegal trade that exists seeking it.

Dom · 18th January 2010, 01:14 AM

Hi Jim

thanks for your very acute and pertinent answer
nevertheless a precision,

all those comments concern mainly on Yemen

for have been 6 years in Saudi, I never hear about "saifani" (vernacular ?)

à +

Dom

16th January 2010, 03:18 PM	#3
Devadatta Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 118	Thanks a lot for your ansewr - it's very useful!

16th January 2010, 04:53 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,282	youre welcome! always glad to be useful

17th January 2010, 10:30 AM	#5
Devadatta Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 118	Dear Gentlemen, in order not to start a new topic I'd like to ask about "saifani" handle of Yemeni jambia, which is often mentioned in articles over this type of dagger. What does it look like? When I was in Yemen I saw a lot of diffirent handle-patterns, but which of them could be that very "saifani" I just forgot to ask. Manythanks in advance!

17th January 2010, 07:24 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,282	Devadatta, The term saifani jambia simply refers to what is apparantly a very high grade janbiyya with emphasis on the hilt material, the most important component of these traditional daggers and status symbols. These are tremendously expensive janbiyyas and thus typically owned by judges, prominant businessmen and merchants, as well as dignitaries, especially of the most revered Hashamite line. There seem to be classification terms that refer mostly to the coloration of the horn used in these hilts: saifani- the term for dull yellow lustre saifani heart- as the color becomes clearer yellow asadi- a saifani whose hilt becomes greenish yellow zaraf- whitish yellow albasali- white as white onion It is unclear whether these colorations alter with age, or have to do with the traditions and beliefs that correspond to the rhino horn which is most highly sought for the hilts. The exorbitant costs involved are very much due to stringent laws emplaced with rhino horn, and the very illegal trade that exists seeking it.

18th January 2010, 01:14 AM	#7
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Hi Jim thanks for your very acute and pertinent answer nevertheless a precision, all those comments concern mainly on Yemen for have been 6 years in Saudi, I never hear about "saifani" (vernacular ?) à + Dom