Luk's dead right-end

Moshah · 22nd December 2009, 08:39 AM

Hi guys.

This is a bugis sumbawa keris, as I was told. I believe it was, with the identification of the flat blade face which this keris possess. The blade looks like an old article, the warangka might not but it fits nicely.

However, the luk's work is puzzling me, since it was dead at right-end, instead of left-hand. Does it matters for the luk to end on the left hand-side all the time? This is because most of kerises I've seen are, but several (very seldom) end it luks at right hand-side.

I was told by someone that this might have to do with the empu, where a fierce / stern empus usually made this kind of luks as their signature. Is this view claims valid groud?

On the other hand, it might looks like a 6-luks keris, which is an out-of-pakem kind of keris.

Kindly tell me what are your view?

David · 22nd December 2009, 04:48 PM

It does look like an odd one (being even that is

). Often enough when we see these even luk blades we can imagine that there was once a bit more to the blade and that indeed it is really an odd luk blade. But given where the pamor terminates on yours it is difficult for me to imagine that there was once much more to it's length.

Moshah · 22nd December 2009, 05:09 PM

Thanks for the view, David.

Not only where the pamor ends, even the proportion of the blade width to the end also suggesting no besutan nor repairs being executed recently.

So I believe the blade was at it's original length, all the way. Being that, it could be an even-luks blade, and out-of-pakem?

I do count six, so do you, but some say it's seven luks, where I don't see it.

Not that I am going to argue with the luks, perhaps it's only people, seeing things differently...

A. G. Maisey · 22nd December 2009, 08:54 PM

I personally subscribe to the point of view that there is no such thing as a blade with even luk.

Culturally it is a complete impossibility for a keris blade to have an even number of luk, as the keris is the ultimate male symbol, and the masculine is associated with uneven numbers.

Where a blade appears to end as an even number you must add one to make it uneven.

Some people will disagree with this, but the ones I have met who do disagree have been very much less keris conscious than the ones I have met who hold this point of view.

Rick · 22nd December 2009, 09:57 PM

I can sort of envision this as a 5 luk blade; but why the orientation of the tip ?

A. G. Maisey · 22nd December 2009, 10:34 PM

No, not 5, but 7.

Start on the first wave above the gandik and the count must finish at the point on the same side as the gandik, it cannot finish on the opposite side of the blade to the gandik.

Why the strange shape?

Not all people who made blades were masters.This bloke has probably done the best he could, but if you look at this blade in detail, its just a blade. I reckon it has been made by a smith, rather than a pandai keris, and he was working to the limit of his ability. The bloke who made this was trying too hard.

Rick · 22nd December 2009, 10:38 PM

Ahh, gotcha Alan .

Naga Sasra · 22nd December 2009, 11:09 PM

I also subscribe to the point the there can only be an uneven number of luk, that said for anyone that may have trouble determining the amount of luk on a blade, there is an easy way which was taught to me in Solo.

Very simple, count the waves on one side of the blade, double the number and add 1.

As Alan said start with the first wave above the gandik, if there are six waves double to twelve and add one = total 13 luk

guwaya · 23rd December 2009, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moshah

Hi guys.

This is a bugis sumbawa keris, as I was told. I believe it was, with the identification of the flat blade face which this keris possess. The blade looks like an old article, the warangka might not but it fits nicely.

However, the luk's work is puzzling me, since it was dead at right-end, instead of left-hand. Does it matters for the luk to end on the left hand-side all the time? This is because most of kerises I've seen are, but several (very seldom) end it luks at right hand-side.

I was told by someone that this might have to do with the empu, where a fierce / stern empus usually made this kind of luks as their signature. Is this view claims valid groud?

On the other hand, it might looks like a 6-luks keris, which is an out-of-pakem kind of keris.

Kindly tell me what are your view?

"it might looks like a 6-luks keris"

Are you sure that this blade always has been a wavy one?

guwaya

Moshah · 23rd December 2009, 10:45 AM

You might be right.

The smith might have tried his best NOT TO finish the blade with the final luks, which should be at right-hand. Because in my view, if he did that, the proportion of luks will look weird, and out of place.

Moshah · 23rd December 2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guwaya

"it might looks like a 6-luks keris"

Are you sure that this blade always has been a wavy one?

guwaya

Guwaya, i am sure the blade is wavy, coz the flat blade face (unfortunately, not so clear in the pix, i might posted some more pix) is wavy as well.

22nd December 2009, 08:39 AM	#1
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Luk's dead right-end Hi guys. This is a bugis sumbawa keris, as I was told. I believe it was, with the identification of the flat blade face which this keris possess. The blade looks like an old article, the warangka might not but it fits nicely. However, the luk's work is puzzling me, since it was dead at right-end, instead of left-hand. Does it matters for the luk to end on the left hand-side all the time? This is because most of kerises I've seen are, but several (very seldom) end it luks at right hand-side. I was told by someone that this might have to do with the empu, where a fierce / stern empus usually made this kind of luks as their signature. Is this view claims valid groud? On the other hand, it might looks like a 6-luks keris, which is an out-of-pakem kind of keris. Kindly tell me what are your view? Attached Images

22nd December 2009, 04:48 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	It does look like an odd one (being even that is ). Often enough when we see these even luk blades we can imagine that there was once a bit more to the blade and that indeed it is really an odd luk blade. But given where the pamor terminates on yours it is difficult for me to imagine that there was once much more to it's length.

22nd December 2009, 05:09 PM	#3
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	Thanks for the view, David. Not only where the pamor ends, even the proportion of the blade width to the end also suggesting no besutan nor repairs being executed recently. So I believe the blade was at it's original length, all the way. Being that, it could be an even-luks blade, and out-of-pakem? I do count six, so do you, but some say it's seven luks, where I don't see it. Not that I am going to argue with the luks, perhaps it's only people, seeing things differently...

22nd December 2009, 08:54 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	I personally subscribe to the point of view that there is no such thing as a blade with even luk. Culturally it is a complete impossibility for a keris blade to have an even number of luk, as the keris is the ultimate male symbol, and the masculine is associated with uneven numbers. Where a blade appears to end as an even number you must add one to make it uneven. Some people will disagree with this, but the ones I have met who do disagree have been very much less keris conscious than the ones I have met who hold this point of view.

22nd December 2009, 09:57 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I can sort of envision this as a 5 luk blade; but why the orientation of the tip ?

22nd December 2009, 10:34 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,897	No, not 5, but 7. Start on the first wave above the gandik and the count must finish at the point on the same side as the gandik, it cannot finish on the opposite side of the blade to the gandik. Why the strange shape? Not all people who made blades were masters.This bloke has probably done the best he could, but if you look at this blade in detail, its just a blade. I reckon it has been made by a smith, rather than a pandai keris, and he was working to the limit of his ability. The bloke who made this was trying too hard.

22nd December 2009, 10:38 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Ahh, gotcha Alan .

22nd December 2009, 11:09 PM	#8
Naga Sasra Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Boca Raton, Florida, USA Posts: 108	I also subscribe to the point the there can only be an uneven number of luk, that said for anyone that may have trouble determining the amount of luk on a blade, there is an easy way which was taught to me in Solo. Very simple, count the waves on one side of the blade, double the number and add 1. As Alan said start with the first wave above the gandik, if there are six waves double to twelve and add one = total 13 luk

23rd December 2009, 10:45 AM	#10
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	You might be right. The smith might have tried his best NOT TO finish the blade with the final luks, which should be at right-hand. Because in my view, if he did that, the proportion of luks will look weird, and out of place.