A Kabyle Flissa of Algeria

[Flavio]

Hello Mike. Why do you say that these are from Marocco? Spring attributes to the Kabyle of Algeria. Have you some other sources? Ariel I don't know wich was the real use of Flissa, but again on Spring's book there is the picture below. Thank you Lew for the link

[Conogre]

I suppose the next logical step is to find out where the "Kabyles" really originate, as Stone identifies them as Moroccan on pg 235-236, while I freely admit to having no actual knowledge of the exact geography involved.
I would imagine the confusion is multiplied by both areas being trade centers with similar or the same pieces appearing in both locations.
Mike
ps...whew!
I stand corrected as to the location of the Kabyles as being in Algeria, with much apparent confusion pertaining to the Berbers in general, who occupy a much greater range.
For now, it would appear that Mr. Stone was at least as bad at geography as myself.

[Jim McDougall]

I recall the discussion on the flyssa, and we got going pretty good discussing the very elusive history and variations of these interesting edged weapons, which range in size from shorter dagger size to very long swords.
Mike,
I think the problem Stone had stating these were Moroccan derives more from the equally elusive geography of North Africa when discussing Berbers, who exceed any such boundaries. The Kabyles are of course of the Berber confederation of tribes (Ar. gabail= 'the tribes' describing Berbers generally by Arabs), but here we are referring actually to the Iflisen which is either a tribe or village or both in the rugged Djurdjura range of Little Atlas Mountains in Algeria.
It seems from references in Brittanica that these tribes are nominally Sunni Muslims of Malakite rite whose center is actually in Morocco. Possibly this, or the wider description of the Maghreb (which includes Morocco and Algeria) or even the dispersement of the Kabyles Berbers into Moroccan regions may account for that designation by Stone.

As can be seen by the earlier thread linked here, much on the flyssa remains unresolved. It would be interesting to hear if anyone out there has come up with any new ideas or observations on them.

Best regards,
Jim

[Conogre]

Thanks of chiming in and filling in the gaps, Jim.....as you can tell, this one caught me entirely off guard.
The only thing I can add is to the comment about the people being nominally Sunni Muslims,(which is where the Moroccan attribution likely came into the picture) while I repeatedly kept coming across references to many Berber sects that have stubbornly held on to their pre-Islamic languages and customs.
I couldn't find anything specific on this, but I've repeatedly seen references to crosses in Berber and Taureg art and weaponry going back to pre-Islamic conversion as well, along with many anecdotes and comments that would seem to indicate that there may be a remnent of animism in the extremely diverse culture as well.
This appears to be another area where change, conversion and modernization have all had major and sometimes immediate impact with tremendous amounts of history and fact likely lost forever.
As to the Flyssa swords, somehow these don't "feel" like your average horseman's sword of the sabre/scimitar style, even those with straight blades, leading me to suspect that this weapon has or had its own unique style of use that's probably another of those matters now lost to the past.
The small grip/hilt would seem to make it very hard to hold onto when combined with the speed and force commonly associated with mounted combat, while the peculiar blade shape would also seem to make it very susceptible to breaking in the middle under those same conditions, while it's obviously a thruster that would be hard to stop.
This area is far outside of any expertiese on my part, but any thoughts would be appreciated as I find it hard to believe that these weren't made to be used more than as status symbols, as is common with so many other types.
Mike

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mike,
It seems there have been quite a few inconclusive discussions on the flyssa around here over the years. I think your observations are all very well placed especially the concerns about exactly how these usually terribly balanced straight sabres might have been used. It does seem to suggest that they may have been intended for ceremonial wear, however I did find an example which was captured in battle by the French Foreign Legion in 1857. Perhaps some obscure narrative or record kept by French forces might have some clue as to how these might have been used in combat.

You are quite right about the Berbers as well as Tuaregs maintaining many elements of early animist traditions and superstitions that well preceded the advent of Islam. The folk religion that exists concurrently with often nominal observance of the Muslim Faith is reflected in the symbolism found in much of the material culture and weapons of the many tribes of the Berbers and Tuaregs, varying widely of course in regional application.

Probably the most distinct examples of such symbolism are the symbols and geometric motif found on the flyssa. Most of this symbolism seems focused toward one of the key elements of such folk religion, that of the dread of the evil eye. The triangular motif along the back of the blade corresponds to the 'fibula' figure signifying the expanded hand held up against the evil eye.
The other symbols and motif, including the stylized zoomorphic figure of the pommel are still very much speculated on.

Also much speculated, is the origin and history of the flyssa, which generally range in size from dagger size to the huge bladed swords. It does seem certain that these are a fairly recently developed weapon as the earliest known examples in the familiar form seem to be from c.1820's. The 1857 example I cited is identical in form to most of those we see in collections so the form had become established by then, and the 1820's example is only referenced without illustration (Tarussuk & Blair, "Encyclopedia of Weapons").

All the best,
Jim