Since it is a helmet kind of day, what do you make of this?

B.I · 18th May 2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conogre

plate 26, page 35 of Spring's "African Arms and Armor" shows a helm with similar patterns and the very heavy padded coife worn underneath that even has a set of western cutlery (forks and spoons) attached, from Darfur, late 19th century.
While the metal composition isn't specifically listed, I wouldn't be surprised if both were utilized, with the copper made even more battle worthy when added to the padding underneath.
Mike

whilst i dont doubt springs knowledge on african armour, he has neglected to mention to true origins of the helmet he showed in his book. the bowl is ottoman, and of the late 15thC. he does, in his defence, mention this happening in his text, but describes this helmet as 19thC. it is of steel (unlike ricks), and the padding and 'cutlery' are added on when adapted (i assume 19thC as he states). it is one of my favourite helmets, just for the ludicrous look and sheer genius decoration. for scant memory (from a previous discussion), i believe the mail is butted and so would denote a local manafacture.
ricks helmet is very interesting, and i believe it dated from the same period as the 'cutlery' additions in the BM helmet.
whist its widely assumed 'heavy armour' denotes an early ages, it was worn in the sudanese wars as late as the first years of the 20thC. africa is outside my sphere, but the pitt rivers museum hold a full set of armour (shirt and helmet) that was taken off a body during these wars. the shirt (from memory) is old (centuries earlier) butthe helmet was of crude, local manafucture but held the antiquated shape, with sliding nasal bar and camail. i do have an image which i will try and find.

Aqtai · 18th May 2005, 10:24 PM

The top half of that helmet does look very like a Turkish or Iranian 'Turban helmet'.

I'm sure I have seen a helmet in Royal Armouries in Leeds which was found in Sudan, and was being worn in the 19th century, but was actually a 15th century Mamluk 'shishak'. I'm sure I have a photo of it somewhere.

B.I · 18th May 2005, 10:41 PM

the royal armouries does indeed have a sudanese armour with an early ottoman helmet, but was trying not to divert this post into turkish arms.
there was also one in the paris exhibition/sale in 1998 (with a 16thC bowl) which was taken at the battle of omdurman on sept 2nd, 1898. the ottoman influence was still heavy into the 19thC, but i know there must be more examples more like ricks helmet in existance (but unfortunatley not in my library).
was spring the only one to cover african armour?
the manafacture was always crude, but of a standard form. i'm not too familiar with complete copper examples, although i have seen copper elements.

18th May 2005, 10:24 PM	#2
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	The top half of that helmet does look very like a Turkish or Iranian 'Turban helmet'. I'm sure I have seen a helmet in Royal Armouries in Leeds which was found in Sudan, and was being worn in the 19th century, but was actually a 15th century Mamluk 'shishak'. I'm sure I have a photo of it somewhere.

18th May 2005, 10:41 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	the royal armouries does indeed have a sudanese armour with an early ottoman helmet, but was trying not to divert this post into turkish arms. there was also one in the paris exhibition/sale in 1998 (with a 16thC bowl) which was taken at the battle of omdurman on sept 2nd, 1898. the ottoman influence was still heavy into the 19thC, but i know there must be more examples more like ricks helmet in existance (but unfortunatley not in my library). was spring the only one to cover african armour? the manafacture was always crude, but of a standard form. i'm not too familiar with complete copper examples, although i have seen copper elements.